Question for all you Ref 1 owners, I recently purchased (on a whim) a pair of R3s and am really impressed with what I'm hearing. Although it might be too early to think about it, I'm seriously considering the Reference 1s as the R3s probably still have some breaking in to do. The R3s are on 24 inch stands, which I feel are a bit too tall. I do intend to get some 19 inch stands. I'm using half of a large finished basement for listening. Instead of describing it, here's a pic I took a few minutes ago. No chance to listen before buying so thought I'd ask what I'd gain. For a little background, I owned, and enjoyed the LS50. The R3 is a much better sounding speaker than the LS50 to my ear. edit: @mds, @Echoes Myron
Your setup looks great! I think you already know what you will hear since you went from the LS50 to the R3 and heard a nice difference. The same will happen as you step up to the Reference series. The step up may not be as significant as the LS50 to the R3 but the Reference line has better drivers and crossovers. I also believe the box is built to higher standards. For these reasons the sound will be more refined. Concerning the stands, I am not sure that you will hear that much of a difference by switching to a lower stand unless the tweeter relationship to your ear heights are that far off because the Uni-Q driver really is very flexible in terms of omni directional. Being a few inches above or below the driver height really should not be that big of a deal. Do you notice a big sound difference when you raise your head more in line with the driver center? Make sure this difference isn't due to raising your ears above the back of your seat. Having your ears below the top of a sofa back can really affect the sound. Taken from KEF's web site: With the acoustic centres at the same point in space the acoustic outputs of the bass and treble units are 'time-aligned' in all directions allowing the designer to achieve perfect integration between the units not just on one axis, as is the situation with vertically separated units, but in all directions. The first advantage of Uni-Q, therefore, is the lack of the vertical interference pattern of separated bass and treble units, which restricts the region of high quality sound output to only +/- 10 degrees above and below the principle axis. This same effect not only limits the vertical listening area but also produces a dip in the total energy output in the bass/treble crossover region, causing a distortion of the reverberant energy in the listening room. In Uni-Q systems this effect is completely eliminated. I may be stopping by the shop where I bought my KEFs in the next day or so, and I know they have the R3 and the R1, so if I get a chance I will demo them and let you know what I heard. Remember this will be my ears not yours, their space and I am prejudice towards the Reference 1s since I own a pair. This hobby is very fickle, there is always the next upgrade.
Timind, I'm intrigued by your post on the sound quality of the KEF R3 and how the fair driven by high quality amplification such as your Simaudio Moon 7-i. For some time I've been considering a McIntosh MA5300 integrated amplifier and possibly mating it with the R3's. Any further insights regarding your observations would be greatly appreciated. Likewise mds I'm anxious to read your thoughst should you be able to demo the R3 against the R1 in the near future. Thanks to both of you.
@mds, thanks for the response. A pair of 19 inch stands will be here early next week so we'll see how that goes. There are two reasons I want to try shorter stands. First is the R3 manual shows using 19 inch stands to get the tweeter at same height as R5, 7, and 11. Second reason is when I owned the LS50, I set them on stands which put tweeter exactly at ear height. They did not sound very good there so I set them on 24 inch stands and got the sound everyone raves about. As for chair, I learned that lesson years ago when I bought a couple of low-back chairs at a garage sale. What a difference they made over the leather recliner I was using at the time. Only problem was my wife had just bought me the recliner for Xmas and I replaced it with a $5 yard sale chair. It's actually more comfortable than the leather chair. I hope you get a chance to compare the R3 to the Ref1. That would be very interesting to hear.
These speakers are surprising me each time I listen to them. For your question though, I've not heard them with any other amp. I've had this amp for a few months and after listening to it, I got rid of a couple amps, including tubes. I love the clean, full power of the i-7. While I'm sure there are other alternatives, this amp is (hopefully) the end of my search.
Your impressions with the Moon should suffice ,the point being they seem to sound better than their modest price suggests and would work well with amps well above their price category.
When I brought the amp home I had my Revel F206s in the system. The dealer who sold me the amp told me not to listen for 2-3 days before judging the amp. I turned it on and left it for a couple hours before listening at all. When I did, the first thing that stood out was the added bass definition from the Revels. The cleanest, deepest bass I had experienced with them.
I too have KEF R3’s and think they better the LS50 substantially. I’m also interested in the Ref so am looking forward to mds’s impressions of the two. I use a Yamaha A-S 1100 integrated.
I was reading the KEF R Series owners manual online and one section illustrates three separate response curves indicating the use of foam bungs which I haven't seen mentioned in any of KEFs literature or any print or online reviews I've read unless that's what they mean by "flexible port". Can either of you verify if in fact they due come with bungs since I would be using them in a room where I've experienced modes with a previous model of speaker I used and was lucky they came with a bund that could sort that out? By the way I sprung for the McIntosh and purchased it with a replacement cartridge for my turntable which I picked up Sunday from my local FedEx office. I'm currently using it with my Rega RX3s which isn't bad but I'm curious to find out what the R3 would add to the equation.
@Morbius, Yes, they come with foam plugs which can be used as a solid foam plug, or remove the center of the plug to reduce the size of the port. Here's a pic of mine: I haven't used them as I'm satisfied with the bass so far. edit: Another thing to consider with the R3 is its size. These are some large "bookshelf" speakers. I originally had them on 24 inch stands which I feel were too tall for the R3. I bought a pair of VTI 19 inch stands which are not tall enough. So I raised the stands up an inch and a half which is better. I may get a pair of 22 inch stands, as I feel that would be the ideal height. The manual says 18-24 inch stands.
I'm inclined to purchase the 24" Performance Speaker Stands which are promoted in all of KEFs marketing but I have been curious about what would be an optimum height to use with this speaker. Again referring to R Series owners manual the floor standers are illustrated as having the midrange tweeter array inches below that of the R3 positioned on the Performance Speaker Stands.
I have my R3’s on 28” stands but I’m using an adjustable height office chair in this room that sits higher than typical furniture seating. My ears are several inches above the tweeter and I have experimented with the height and think that tweeter below ear in optimum.
Just an update, haven't gone to the dealer yet but it still is on my list of things to do. Will report back what I hear. Concerning stand height, I have a pair of Reference 1s on 24 inch high stands and am very satisfied. The plugs for the Reference 1 speakers are very different than the plugs shown a few posts above. The Reference 1 plugs are hard foam and you have two choices, long or short. Both are open, no closing off the port. The different lengths change the bass roll-off from extended to a quicker roll-off. Recommended to choose based on distance from front wall or room bass nodes.
If it helps, I've run my R3 demos here with both 24" and 22" stands. Honestly, with my demo room chair, I could hear very little difference (granted I'm somewhat tall at 6'3" so my position in the chair may be a tad higher then some).
I've run R3s with some higher end gear from most of the lines I sell, and they do seem to play very well as you go up. I just tried them out with the new Bel Canto e1X pre-dac/amp, and that's a surprisingly good combo.
As of this time I have the R3s on stands just shy of 21 inches which brings the tweeter height to 33 inches. That 33 inches is just below my ear. The tweeter was at 36 inches when on the 24 inch stands. I haven't had an opportunity to listen on the new stands, but I have to say I prefer the aesthetics on the lower stands. The R3 is a large speaker and the taller stand brought the total height to 41 inches, just looked too tall from my chair. @GoldprintAudio, have you had a chance to demo the R3 against the Reference 1? Impressions?
No....I've actually never had both here are the same time. I will say the R3s are a pretty incredible value, in that they give a good portion of the what the REFs do, at a fraction of the cost. But the REFs are really fantastic speakers, and in reality a bit better in every way (as they should be for the cost difference).
Set these up this morning and already I'm impressed! These speakers can image like nothing I've heard before, bass is plentiful and the midrange is very engaging. The highs sound a little dry but I've been listening to a silk dome tweeter for the last three years so a metal dome should take some getting used to. There seems to be an issue with the speaker grills though, they didn't come shipped in the carton and when I called my dealer about it he said there is some back story about them being fabricated from a leather like material and they warp and that they may have stopped shipping them with the speakers. We'll see how that works out, though its not a deal breaker since the speakers look really cool without the grills but I would definitely be looking forward to some form of compensation. The Performance Speaker Stands are gorgeous. What I thought was going to be stamped and rolled metal turned out to be extruded aluminum and what I think is cast iron or steel, even the cones that the spikes thread into are cast into the pedestal. Very solid and substantial. Each pillar holds exactly two bags of the inert media recommended by KEF and Music Direct which adds mass to what is already a fairly heavy stand. The stands are tall roughly 26 inches which puts the tweeter slightly above my ear height when seated but I don't think its much of an issue given the concentric design of the midrange and tweeter I don't think lobeing could be an issue either as it probably contributes much to the incredible 3D imaging the speakers produce.
No idea why you would want to cover up those beautiful drivers and front baffle? That is a beautiful speaker you just purchased. I'd be concerned if they only sent you one speaker though. Neither my Reference 1 or 3s came with grilles, nor would I have wanted any. Sit back, let them break in and enjoy their wonderful looks and sound. Now to move them around inch by inch until you find the perfect spot with the biggest and most perfect soundstage imaginable.
Looking good there. I took this pic to send to a friend so he could see them with on, he also preferred the look sans grills. Yeah, some type of faux leather feel to it.
Agree. That pic was texted to my friend to show him what the grills looked like. As far as grills go, they're pretty attractive. In the end though, the grills are packed away in the box where I expect they'll stay.
Yes, they are quite handsome. I'm somewhat ashamed to admit that the color and the texture of the grain was a selling point but I think ultimately the sound was the selling point here. I think they might stay in their current position at the moment while I acclimate to the new sound then I'll start to make minor adjustments to dial them in.
No reason not to say looks play into the decision. You will be looking at those speakers as much as you would be your wife or girlfriend.
