Kenny Dorham, "Quiet Kenny": Does every version have the same 'skip' on "Alone Together"?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by 2xUeL, Jun 16, 2015.

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  1. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    I second the XRCD, it's sublime.
     
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  2. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    @2xUeL

    I listened to the AP 45 rpm, the splice edit is present on it as well, actually more obvious than that Youtube clip given how detailed this reissue is. Since this Fantasy 45 rpm series was sourced from the master tapes I imagine it is on the tape and not a digital flaw. In my opinion from the Van Gelder recorded albums from that series of 100 reissues this is right up there with my very favorite for sound quality and music.

    To Steve- you guys did an amazing job on this reissue. I bought this one early on and I think this is one of the few times I've played it on my Quads, just an unbelievable midrange and everything else.
     
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  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Thanks, bro.
     
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  4. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Thanks, HV. I may need to snag that copy at Jazz Record Center before it's gone for good!
     
  5. Maggie

    Maggie like a walking, talking art show

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    The real question here is, does the original release have this splice? It's a weird place for an edit -- as I said, if there had been a flub this early in the song, surely they would have stopped the take rather than going to the bother of editing. It almost sounds like an attempt to repair a broken/damaged tape. Just based on the "fwip" sound and the way the snare hurries (suggesting a missed fraction of a beat).
     
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  6. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Makes sense, Maggie. Maybe the tape straight up broke and they just had to mend it back together...?

    Sadly, after two email exchanges, my acquaintance with the original pressing insisted he couldn't hear what I was talking about in the YouTube clip and thus did not proceed to check his original copy. :cry:
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  7. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I got the record today and listened to it through a preamp with a mono button, first on speakers then on headphones. Here's the deal, it is a very narrow re-channeling where I could only hear a subtle difference on speakers when toggling the mono button on and off. With headphones it was easier to hear that the highs lean slightly to the right and the lows slightly to the left. When the mono button is engaged it folds perfectly to mono with no artifacts. Another thing to note is that around this time Rudy often stamped STEREO in the deadwax of stereo records and this lacks that, there is only a minuscule machine stamped DW which I've never seen before. So mystery solved, no stereo Soultrane and Rudy did do some re-channeling, albeit very subtle, of mono recordings.
     
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  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    There never was a mystery. Soultrane is mono only. There is no stereo tape.
     
  9. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Maybe mystery was the wrong word, just some confusion regarding this 1967 version cut by Rudy with PRST prefix.
     
  10. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    This is the first time I've ever heard of Van Gelder doing electronically rechanneled stereo masters...must have given in to label demands in the '70s.
     
  11. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I didn't know that Frederick sold reissues? It looks like it is out of print according to Acoustic Sounds, so if it's there it's well worth picking up!
     
  12. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    He does keep a rather large section of new reissues.
     
  13. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Shall we keep the conversation going about Quiet Kenny? What's your favorite version? I currently have the OJC CD, which I love, and I have the OJC '80s vinyl on the way. I just accidentally picked up the German OJC pressing (thought I ordered the US one), and I rarely trash releases, but this one is rough. The vinyl is noisy even though it's quite clean (I know, there could be a number of reasons for this), the cover is really flimsy, but worst of all, whoever mastered it decided to add reverb! :mad:
     
  14. Trevor_Bartram

    Trevor_Bartram Senior Member

    Location:
    Boylston, MA, USA
    Great to see much interest in one of my all time favourite albums!!
     
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  15. Joe P.

    Joe P. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Amsterdam
    I just finished a simple comparison of three CDs of "Quiet Kenny". I listened on my main and secondary systems (including headphones).

    The albums I listened to (in order of personal preference of sound-quality):
    1. US Prestige PRCD-8225-2, Limited Edition, K2 20-bit, mastered by Shigeo Miyamato (very natural, open, energetic like a live-event, the best of these three)
    2. Japanese XRCD K2 20bit, mastered by Alan Yoshida (very gentle, a little restrained even, darkish, less weight, less air)
    3. German OJC, 20-bit, (harsh, nasty trumpet, quickly stopped this one)

    Hope this helps anybody seeking a good CD copy of this wonderful album. :)
     
  16. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    After my last post in this thread I received the (US) OJC '80s vinyl and it's a definite keeper, sounds beautiful. :D
     
  17. Trevor_Bartram

    Trevor_Bartram Senior Member

    Location:
    Boylston, MA, USA
    Good to see some love for the Fantasy K2. I latched onto the K2s when they were current because I believed, in some cases, they came from better tapes than the previous OJCs, of ten or more years before, the prime examples being, Miles Davis: Workin' and Art Pepper: +Eleven. Once I'd discovered that, I went on to buy other titles in the series that I didn't already have as an OJC and have never regretted it, I just plain like the sound of them and have never understood the criticism of the Fantasy K2s at this forum.
     
  18. Henley

    Henley Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Does it have the George Horn initials "GH" in the deadwax?
     
  19. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    It does not, but I asked about five different sellers on Discogs with used OJC copies about the dead wax and none of them had a "GH" copy, so I'm led to believe it doesn't exist (this copy has the "P (AP)" configuration, suggesting it's a mid-80s pressing (it also has the shrink wrap with the original rectangular sticker so I knew it was an authentic '80s copy ;)).
     
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  20. Henley

    Henley Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I see several OJC's with "P" in the deadwax (ao Blue Gene recently), what is your experience with those? Are these based on digital masters?
     
  21. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher Thread Starter

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    My experience is good. There doesn't seem to be any way for us to know for sure if a particular copy of an OJC title is all-analog. The best bet seems to be looking for GH in the dead wax. I also look for original OBIs or longer rectangular stickers as a sign of a copy being a pressing from the '80s.

    For more info, see:
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ojc-vinyl-reissue-question.243802/page-9#post-11811190
    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/why-do-some-ojc-riverside-lp-pressings-sound-terrible.328803/
     
  22. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I just picked up the 1970 reissue of Quiet Kenny (titled Kenny Dorham/1959) and listened to the spot where there is this glitch (it's pretty subtle) and could not hear it. It could be that surface noise obscured it but I played this section three times in a row and could detect no issue.

    On the other hand there is a spot (can't remember which song) where Rudy brought up the left fader with Kenny on it, after a rhythm section solo, and you could hear the ambient drum sound leak into that channel which was previously faded down.
     
  23. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Just seeing this now, so I checked my CD copy which I ripped to FLAC:

    Kenny Dorham - Quiet Kenny

    There is a slight something at the 22 second mark of Alone Together, but it doesn't seem like digital glitch - at least not the kind I'm accustomed to hearing.

    I also have this LP reissue from Analogue Productions, which is very nicely done, I'll have to check that at some point to see if it sounds the same on that track.

    Kenny Dorham - Quiet Kenny
     
  24. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    AFAIK, all the "P" means is that it was pressed at the Columbia/Pittman plant. That's assuming we're talking about an OJC pressed in the 80s or 90s prior to the Concord Music Group takeover.

    If you see a "T", IIRC, that means it was pressed at the Columbia/Terre Haute plant.
     
  25. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It's interesting that this Analogue Productions reissue has the catalog number for Kenny Dorham/1959 crossed out in the deadwax. I'm guessing that's what must be on the tape box?
     
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