King Crimson 2009 re-issues CD / DVD stereo/5.1 all inclusive thread (Part 4)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 14, 2013.

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  1. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Stereo only. (Mine is the box set and includes that same note.) Tell my good friend, Michael, that it sound sounds great. He's bound and determined to show that his waveforms "prove" that it doesn't. FWIW, it's fine by me - those issues were with the CD's in the Thrak set last year.
     
  2. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    As we've seen, he doesn't evaluate these things with his ears. He judges remasterings based on the DR value.
     
  3. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    I don't have the box, just the CD+DVD-A, but it's for both, 5.1 and stereo mixes. Strange.
    I remember reading some complains about the Thrak set around the forum, but also for some songs in Lizard and S&BB. Perhaps I am too young to be bothered by compression, but the new 40th AE albums all sound pretty good to me! I can't comment on the Thrak box though, I don't have it.
     
  4. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    That's the important thing. It should be one question, "Do you like it?" If you do (I do too), then none of the side issues matter.
     
    albertop likes this.
  5. Simon_LDT

    Simon_LDT Forum Resident

    Location:
    England, UK
    I don't know why you're digging a deeper hole for yourself here. Steven Wilson has completely remixed these albums, taking the individual multitracks and creating a new mix from scratch.
     
    Max Florian likes this.
  6. HanowarHAIL

    HanowarHAIL Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    This conversation appears to be going in circles. I don't claim to know every little detail regarding the typical Steven Wilson remix/remaster process, but I thought every one of the these Steven Wilson remixes for King Crimson was further tweaked (mastered) by Simon Heyworth and/or Robert Fripp. I remember reading from somewhere (could have been an interview with Steven Wilson himself or possibly a post on this forum) that Steven Wilson's vaunted 'masterings' on all new remixes that he has done are due to the fact that he does not apply any kind of 'mastering' beyond the remixing from the original multi-tracks. He does not use compression after the remix process.

    It seems to me that the Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair stereo and surround remixes were newly mastered by Fripp and Singleton for this release. Again, I'm not expert on the details of this process, but I thought that SW takes the flat transfers of the tapes, remixes them, and then Fripp/Heyworth/other person at DGM tweaks or adjusts the new remix using at least some compression, then it gets authored onto the various discs and formats.
     
    tonewheeltom, Say It Right and Plan9 like this.
  7. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    He is, but clearly, he makes exceptions. Another big one was his new stereo mix (read: slight remix) of Opeth's Damnation, which was fairly crushed by Jaime Gomez in mastering.
     
  8. MichaelCPE

    MichaelCPE Forum Resident

    Again rather than this being an exception, I think this remix was also done ages ago and just took years to get released.
     
  9. Sternodox

    Sternodox SubGenius Pope of Arkansas

    Here's hoping it's only a little bit fatal. "Honest, Your Honor ... I didn't kill him that hard!"
     
  10. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    The 5.1 mix was done ages ago. The stereo remix was completed just for the new release, as I understand it.
     
  11. MichaelCPE

    MichaelCPE Forum Resident

    My understanding is that creating a new stereo mix is the first step Wilson uses to create a 5.1 mix.

    So there was a new Wilson stereo mix done ages ago.

    I find it hard to image Wilson doing all the work to create a new stereo mix again. But it is possible that his old stereo remix had a few tweaks done to it more recently.

    And unless evidence comes up to prove me wrong, I'll continue to think that the reduced dynamics of the new stereo mix are not of Wilson's choosing.
     
  12. JediJoker

    JediJoker Audio Engineer/Enthusiast

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    The original stereo mix of Damnation was done by Steven, who produced it and its partner Deliverance (which he didn't mix). Sometime later, he mixed it in surround, but it was never released. Finally, this reissue materializes with Bruce Soord doing a stereo and surround remix of Deliverance, and Steven's mixes of Damnation. He only remixed his original stereo slightly for it, and all four mixes were mastered by Jaime Gomez. This happened well after the Tull fiasco that prompted his statement/stance on the mastering of his mixes. Sometimes, he just doesn't have the clout or control.
     
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  13. Simon_LDT

    Simon_LDT Forum Resident

    Location:
    England, UK
    Yeah, I think it depends on the label, band, etc. I know SW has more clout now than before and I know he has mentioned that he doesn't like his work mastered or tampered with once it leaves his hands but sometimes labels will just do what they want. Damnation, while being DR8 sounds wonderful still.
     
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  14. MichaelCPE

    MichaelCPE Forum Resident

    As someone who heard Damnation played live twice in a small venue with great sound, no, the DR8 version doesn't sound nearly as great as it should.
     
  15. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    That was my understanding, as well but it does seem superfluous to completely re-do the stereo mix, as opposed to just transferring the 30th Anniversary tracks to hi rez. Presumably, the surround the major selling point here, as most of the live material has has previously been available.
     
    Runicen likes this.
  16. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Did you end up getting the 80's set?
     
  17. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    Sadly, it is a little outside of my price range right now, but I did get the Three of a Perfect Pair remix and I think it sounds fantastic.
     
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  18. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    Slapped bonus DVD video, which is mostly audio with exception of Munich (better witnessed from the Blu Ray). Initial reactions are that they were in top form for Philly and Asbury Park in late August '82. Was somewhat skeptical of the sonics at first, but these opened up.

    As an aside, an old thread reappeared about instruments that wreck every song. As we know, there's a massive contingent at this forum, who absolutely love to tell what they don't like. The thread was out to about 20+ pages. Well, the reason for referencing it here is that Roland guitar synthesizer, Chapman Stick and Simmons electronic drums all featured prominently from rank amateur musicians. Yes, there were posts about what equipment Bruford should have used instead.

    The irony of all this is that this particular group was at the absolute cusp of technology at the time and willing to test the limits.
     
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  19. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    Not DR11...The bastards:cheers:
     
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  20. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    Going to call foul on this one. Opeth were amazing when I saw them live touring Damnation and I don't think any recording would equal that. :D
     
  21. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident

    I know that S&BB was already discussed rather emotionally about five years ago, but I have a little question for you guys about the song sequence: "The Law of Maximum Distress: part 1", "Improv: The Mincer" and "The Law of Maximum Distress: part 2".
    The three tracks are present in both the CD -compresssed - and the DVD-Audio - non-compressed. I just recently found out these three tracks are identical in both discs but they were definitely mastered differently. Do you know why? I couldn't find info on the liner notes or around this forum. Thanks
     
  22. tonewheeltom

    tonewheeltom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vineland, NJ
    I'm just getting around to ripping all the extra audio from the DVD-As in these sets, and have discovered in a closed thread that the Islands extra content ("Alternate Album", "Routes to Islands", "Assorted Ladies") are not showing up in DVD Audio Extractor because of a video authoring issue. This is the content labeled in the booklet as 16/48 resolution. Has anyone on a Mac successfully extracted this, and how?
     
  23. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Location:
    Golden Gate
    This won't help much, but...

    I did get this done, but I forget exactly how, nor did I tag any of it (dunno why). I'm on Mac. Was accomplished on El Capitan; haven't done any DVDAE rips in Sierra.

    The only thing I can suggest is to go to the "DVD Source" part of the DVDAE menu and select one of the other two(?) options, "Folder" or "File" and try to access from there. The hard part is that these don't appear to be audio files, at least by their name.suffix, plus they may located in what seems to be a video area.

    I've run across this with other discs, and have had hit-or-miss results. Sometimes I can't get the promised extras. But I did manage to get all of Islands. Hopefully someone else will chime in with more details.
     
    tonewheeltom likes this.
  24. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    That's right, these tracks are on the DVD-V layer of the disc, you just have to change sources to access them.
     
  25. tonewheeltom

    tonewheeltom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vineland, NJ
    Thanks fellas, accessing the VIDEO_TS folder from the disc using the drop down menu in DVDAE was easy.
     
    gd0 likes this.
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