King Crimson, Discipline on CD: a blind listening test

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by albertop, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Wow, the Polydor CD I preferred is going for silly money (not Easy) on Discogs... I'll stick with the remix
  2. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Uppsala Sweden
    Damn, actually more expensive than a UK LP. Why is that even?
  3. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Because it is very rare and sounds great, presumably
  4. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Austin, TX, USA
    Not surprised by this.

    All of the best sounding ones to my ears are 80's pressings which I would need to hunt down (and won't).

    Liked the Definitive Edition the least. Don't listen to that CD anymore.

    I'll stick with the CD/DVD. I get the remix and the 30th Anniversary remaster.
    aphexj likes this.
  5. gd0

    gd0 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies

    Golden Gate
    Nuts. I can't tell you how many times I passed on that Polydor sitting in the used bin at Amoeba.

    Oh well, I still prefer the remix.

    Before The great Vinyl Purge Of 2000, I had US, UK and JPN LPs. Dunno which press. Can't remember details, but the UK was the easy-to-discern best of them.

    For me, this is an odd album engineering-wise. That it's an important album just complicates things. I wouldn't be surprised that upon hearing the master tapes, I wouldn't like them, either.

    Actually, where they sounded best was live.
  6. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Austin, TX, USA
    Just got rid of my US vinyl copy last week. It was better than the DE CD, but wasn't anything special when compared to the DVD.
    gd0 likes this.
  7. I have the 1986 Warner Bros. 3629-2 CD. Anyone know offhand if that one has one of these masterings, or something different entirely?
  8. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    To be honest, I prefer the Steve Wilson remix to any of these...........
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  9. g.z.

    g.z. Forum Resident

    There is one other alternative to the original 1983 Polydor "Red Face" CD - Sample C.

    And it's this:
    King Crimson - Discipline

    The matrix is 800099 2 01 which is the catalog number for the 1983 red Polydor
    CD and it has been said here it contains the original red Polydor CD mastering.
    It sounds fantastic and I have never wanted for another CD version
    of the original mix.

    It looks just like this one (Sample B) except for the matrix number:
    King Crimson - Discipline
    The matrix for this CD is EGCD 49 175371 01 % MADE IN U.K. BY PDO.

    I lucked out in acquiring it, but it's out there.
  10. I can't vote as the poll is closed but B or C for me. A is too aggressive sounding, the others are a wee bit bright or lacking in low end.

    My personal preference has always been the U.S. EG with the original vinyl Discipline emblem (others are slightly different).
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  11. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Toulouse, France
    I had this one but I noticed it succumbed to CD-rot as I was looking for different masterings for this very test. As you say it contained the Polydor mastering.
    JediJoker, albertop and g.z. like this.
  12. g.z.

    g.z. Forum Resident

    :righton: Thank you most kindly Plan9 for informing me about the CD-rot.
    I just checked out my copy and it is showing signs of oxidation on the label side.
    The play side still looks great.
    I've burned a back-up copy just in case.:sweating:
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  13. Having both the U.S. Warner (which I don't know how it compares to the UK) vinyl, I think that the best CD here sounds comparable to the vinyl. Just for the record (pardon the pun) but there slight variations between the two with each playing to the strength of the respective format.
    albertop likes this.
  14. tlake6659

    tlake6659 Forum Resident

    I have this too. Is it a different mastering to the one's in this test?
  15. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Can you post the DR values? I could compare them with my files and let you know.
  16. Cool, thanks @albertop. I will post the DR values later, when I get a chance, unless @tlake6659 has them handy.
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  17. JJ3810

    JJ3810 Forum Resident

    EAC values from page #18 of this thread:
    Getting To The Bottom of King Crimson On CD

    This is the EG/Warner Brothers Discipline CD:
    99.9 / 90.5 / 96.4 / 100.0 / 95.8 /65.5 / 100.0

    And this is the EG/Caroline Discipline, pressed by EMI JAX:
    100.0 / 94.0 / 65.2 / 100.0 / 100.0 / 91.9 / 100.0
    albertop likes this.
  18. Matty

    Matty Forum Resident

    At various points during the 1990s I heard and A/B'ed several Discipline CDs (including the original Polydor and the DE), and WB 3629-2 was my favorite and the one I kept. It certainly seemed like a unique mastering; I hope my ears weren't playing tricks on me!
    g.z. and Blue Note like this.
  19. g.z.

    g.z. Forum Resident

    I'vw always wanted to check out the 1986 Warner Bros. 3629-2 CD.
    But I never have seen one.
    Blue Note likes this.
  20. The DR data for the Warner Bros. CD @albertop :

    King Crimson - Discipline (Warner Bros. 3629-2)
    DR Peak RMS Filename

    DR14 -0.01 dB -16.55 dB 01 - Elephant Talk.wav
    DR13 -0.87 dB -15.89 dB 02 - Frame By Frame.wav
    DR11 -0.31 dB -15.12 dB 03 - Matte Kudasai.wav
    DR12 over -15.02 dB 04 - Indiscipline.wav
    DR13 -0.37 dB -15.30 dB 05 - Thela Hun Ginjeet.wav
    DR13 -3.67 dB -20.23 dB 06 - The Sheltering Sky.wav
    DR15 -0.00 dB -17.35 dB 07 - Discipline.wav
    Number of files: 7
    Official DR value: DR13

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  21. I didn't get a chance to vote on this poll, but I listened to the samples now through Sennheiser HD 202's. I like C best, which I guess is the Polydor. I don't hear much difference between this and the Warner Bros. 3629-2, TBH.
    g.z. likes this.
  22. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Toulouse, France
    And here is the Polydor:

    The DR scores are the same but not the other values.
  23. Mbe

    Mbe Forum Resident

    The E'G/Polydor (Blue E'G) also matches the values posted for the Red Faced cd;

    King Crimson – Discipline (barcode 3259180009922)
    Matrix: 800099 2 01
    81.5 / 78.8 / 73.2 / 76.8 / 79.4 / 67.5 / 81.2
    DR14......-1.77 dB......-18.11 dB.....4:44 – Elephant Talk
    DR13......-2.06 dB......-17.73 dB.....5:10 – Frame By Frame
    DR11......-2.70 dB......-16.81 dB.....3:48 – Matte Kudasai
    DR12......-2.29 dB......-16.53 dB.....4:34 – Indiscipline
    DR13......-2.00 dB......-17.35 dB.....6:28 – Thela Hun Ginjeet
    DR13......-3.41 dB......-20.01 dB.....8:24 – The Sheltering Sky
    DR15......-1.80 dB......-19.40 dB.....5:02 – Discipline
  24. albertop

    albertop Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Samples from the 1st UK vinyl here.
    They are in FLAC format, 16/44.1, and have been level adjusted to match the volume of the other samples.

    The other samples are available for download here.
    Samples from the SW's remix are available for download here.


    @Plan9 , thanks for providing the source files :)!
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  25. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    The 1st pressing UK vinyl sounds excellent, perhaps a little more 'forward' in the bass than my preferred CD mastering of the same mix (which, thanks to @Mbe for the excellent sleuthing, I've managed to find much cheaper on a Blue-EG face West German pressing via Discogs) but perhaps that's just the usual vinyl 'warmth/hype/crackle'. They are quite close otherwise
    g.z. and Mbe like this.

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