Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Steve0, Apr 28, 2018.
I agree. ANY record cleaning ALWAYS sounds better than no cleaning.
Nitty Gritty, VPI, KL, Kirmuss or Audio Desk... we are talking nuances.
I DO NOT RECOMMEND the Kinetronics "Tiger" cloth as sold on Amazon:
When I removed it from its envelope packaging I "flapped" it and saw some dust/lint released initially, plus the edges immediately frayed badly.Every time I flapped it to release dust the edges go worse.
It did do a good job of removing dust from some dry records, but I saw no reason to keep it and no reason why this product should be so relatively expensive. Since its was sold via Azon Prime its heading back pronto.
In general, I avoid buying anything from Amazon that could be knocked off, boot-legged, etc. It might cost a bit more, but I think buying drying cloths from companies that provide for laboratories is less risky.
I have owned the KL audio cleaner for a few years now and cleaned probably around 1000 albums and every new album I buy before playing. Never noticed any LP being more flexible ( perhaps I have not been looking close enough ) nor any damage to the vinyl.
The KL won't clean really dirty/soiled records - I use my normal RCM for that and finish off with the KL. I use KL literally every day giving any older record I bring out of the rack a clean.
If you run it for a while on 5 minute cleaning cycles, you can see records wobble -- and if you watch, you'll see that they are flexing. I don't think it is a problem either. The flexing only occurs during the wash cycle while the album is in a 'hot' bath and there is a temperature differential, as explained in Andre Jennings' piece I mentioned above.
I think you guys may have been watching X files for too long.
I have noticed the wobble, but I have always seen that as the LP is not held tightly as it rotates, so it moves from side to side slightly - not that it is flexing. You can wobble the record from side to side and it does wobble as soon as you put it into the KL.
Anyway for testing purposes , I put a record on for 2 x 5 minute washes. I cannot see any flexing of the vinyl - only wobbling of the vinyl in the loose holder as it washes. I put the record onto my turntable - guess what - completely flat. I think Dre and others are completely wrong on this occasion.
btw, I always use the 5 min wash, 3 min dry - 2min in summer.
Did you only do one record for that test? Try a number in a row so that the water gets hotter. I don't think I'm tripping. If I have an opportunity, next time I use it for seriatim cleaning, I'll try to take some video footage assuming the camera will reveal it.
What temperature does the water need to be to start melting the record? I’ve not experienced anything at all like this with the Kirmuss, and if I did it would go straight back. The odds of a record getting hot enough to melt and start warping, and then it magically returning to the exact same state (with absolutely no change in the groves whatsoever) seems slim to none, so I’d never put my vinyl through this.
It is not hot enough to melt or damage the record. And it is not a permanent condition. I'll try to video it next time I do a large batch and take the temp of the water. Don't freak!
The KL can clean filthy records, although a combination method is much better. You may have to run several 5 minute cycles. I do agree with you though. Really dirty records require more elbow grease than what the KL can offer.
For this one off test, yes. I have cleaned 10 or 15 records in a row a few times, all at the 5 min wash. No flexing.
Yes, you are tripping
Has anyone here come up with an alternative home brew recipe for the supplied fluid?
I've been cleaning some records (around 40 ish) over the last week or so and I'm over half way through the supplied bottle, I believe the good doctors claim of 300 records is at best misleading.
According to his video each record needs 3 pumps per side so 6 in total 6 x 300 is 1800, no way that little bottle has 1800 pumps or fluid in it and that's if each record is already relatively clean and doesn't require more than 1 application. The only way I can see his statement to be accurate is if he's talking about 7" records that perhaps require 1 pump per side, there might be 600 pumps worth in that little bottle but 1800, no way.
I using an okki nokki with audio intelligent #15 cleaner and their pure rinse. Will this Kirmuss ultra sonic give better results? Just curious from those that used the okki or vpi, etc and switched to the Kirmuss us cleaner.
If you're not using the stylus cleaner you can pour that into your spray bottle- it's the same stuff.
For those who have the Kirmuss machine, do you leave the water in the tank overnight or do you drain it, per his instructions? That’s a lot of distilled water to go through.
Drain it every night? Jeez, that would be too much messing around. I changed mine today after a week/40ish records.
ULTRASONIC VINYL RESTORATION SYSTEM
Look at the section “How Many Baths...”
I asked Charles about this and he said no need to drain it each use.
I use the OKKI with the AI #6 and the L'art du son. All my records have been cleaned at least 3 - 4 times already and I always have some floaties in the bottom after the US clean on the Kirmuss
I'm just over a 100 records cleaned and am over half way through my second bottle. I've been using 1 - 2 pumps lately, if I use it at all, and it's still going fast.
That's the (badly) broken telephone version of the story.
I think you're referring to a 2007 scandal in which four Panama-based drug manufacturers produced cough syrup using diethylene glycol that they believed was glycerine. Diethylene glycol is a less-expensive, legitimate alternative to glycerine for industrial applications. But diethylene glycol is nephrotoxic and when ingested can cause multiple organ dysfunction or failure. There were poisonings in Panama, China, Haiti, Bangladesh, Argentina, Nigeria, and India (twice) between 1992 and 2007, due to contaminated cough syrup and other medications that incorporated diethylene glycol instead of the intended glycerin. In May 2007, over 350 deaths were reported in Panama.
In Panama, the imported diethylene glycol came from a Chinese manufacturer, sold under the unfortunate name TD Glycerine which means 'glycerine substitute' and made for the industrial market. A Spanish middleman filling the customs declaration changed the name to Glycerine.
The China Food and Drug Administration did not regard the toxic cough syrup scandal as being China's fault. The Chinese industrial products manufacturer exported the diethylene glycol under the name TD Glycerine, but the Spanish middleman, Aduanas Javier de Gracia, changed the name to Glycerine when he filled out the customs declaration in Panama. He was careless. Or a *****. Maybe the Dunning-Kruger effect kicked in with a vengeance. Call it what you want. Nothing to do with any Chinese maker of cough syrup though, and nothing to do with Cuba.
Ultimately in the grand scheme of things I think paying $10 per bottle for the surfactant is insignificant. If you want to use your home brew cleaner use a vacuum cleaning machine which doesn't clean your records. Just MHO.
I agree, at least with respect to the Kirmuss product. All of the prewash and scrubbing and solutions and repeat cycles in the Kirmuss and manual drying methods and drying cloth selections and debates associated with the Kirmuss amount to a comparatively long period of time to clean each LP.
I use an Okki Nokki RCM (a contemporary ‘take’ on a Nitty Gritty) for the occasioanl used LP that has been really badly mistreated. But I used the Saidi Audio ultrasonic RCM for everything else. The Saidi Audio machine has selectable cleaning times and separately selectable drying times using its internal fan. The tank filter is very food quality and easy to clean and reuse, the unit is easy to drain when changing distilled water, the agitation roller brushes are easy to change every 200-300 LPs or so, and the unit makes inly a moderate amount of noise during operation.
The Saidi Audio machine, like the Audio Desk Systeme for which Saidi supplied (still supplies?) parts has a couple of design flaws. Like the Audio Desk version, you frequently have to reseat an LP slightly in the drive roller when the cleaning cycle starts. The squeegee mounted at the top of the receiver slot needs cleaning every 10-20 LPs, which is something not mentioned in the user manual. Aside from those things, they’re great machines. As best I can tell from show demos and from trying out the Kirmuss at Star Electronics in Toronto, it does not have either of thise two minor issues.
I use the factory-recommended cleaning fluid in my Saidi Audio ultrasonic RCM. It is expensive. Many, many audiophiles home brew their cleaning fluid for these machines. Some of their cleaning results are poor or merely average with home brew; others do better, and do as well as the product maker’s fluid.
The marketing and merchandising of the Kirmuss RCM seems to have encouraged a hobbyist approach to record cleaning with more home brewed fluid than ever. Again though, use of the Kirmuss machine requires a manual pre-cleaning using a detergent and then the ultrasonic process (the water for which must contain a surfactant). By any measure - except perhaps when comparing the cleaning of seriously filthy LPs using a SpinClean - the Kirmuss machine requires a lot of ancillary work as far as I can tell, and sufficient workspace to keep solutions and drying cloths and brushes and an air-drying rack.
This is better.
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