KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Just because he wasn't ALLOWED to wank, doesn't mean he didn't WANT to wank!!

    C'mon man! You're no dummy, you're every bit as smart as I am. YOU KNOW they had to CONSTANTLY tug back on Vinny's reins or it would have been wall to wall hairy palms..

    I understand that you enjoy what I call "wank" as well......and that's FINE! I'm not saying it isn't credible to shred.....I don't think it worked within the context of KISS....AT ALL!

    But that's my opinion. I call it "wank" because everyone instantly knows what I'm talking about, in regards to 80's guitar playing. I'm not trying to insult anyone.

    Vinny had every right to make the music he wanted to make (Once he was on his own, within KISS he had the right to do what he was TOLD and PAID to do.), and Vinny's fans had.....and HAVE every right to enjoy what it is he does.....whether I like it or not....which I don't, so I simply don't listen to it.

    But I have no desire to mock anyone else's enjoyment of it.

    Hey, I'm an "80's Rolling Stones" fan.......I know what it's like to have an "Unpopular opinion." (.....Just for the record....."Steel Wheels" still sucks.)
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  2. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    I don't have a single memory of ANYONE in KISS discussing the "Non-make-up" reissue.

    It could also potentially have something to do with the fact that KISS was waiting on Nevison, and for the first time in their career, a year passed with no new KISS record. (I realize that "Asylum" and the re-issue of "Creatures were both 85', but I'm willing to bet "Creatures" hit the shelves just in time for Christmas 85'

    Man....I'm shocked that so many people are unaware of Ace's promo!

    He BLATS Gene with accusations that....ugh.....I just don't want to repeat too many of them.....but it's the type of stuff you'd imagine....sexual harassment, trying to get with Ace's wife EARLIER THAT YEAR! (I guess it would have been the wife he walked out on and left high and houses Ace....Glass houses......if you just Google "Ace rips Gene and calls him a "Sex addict" or anything like that.....You'll find the promo.

    The most BIZZARE part of it, is at the end HE DEMANDS HIS OLD JOB BACK!

    ......Wow.....this band has kept me entertained since I was about 10!

    Thank you KISS!!!
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  3. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident


    They were going to have Bruce re-do all the leads......

    ......Wait......I get it......I'm surprised they DIDN'T have Bruce do that.

    Now that I think about it, this re-issue has a Vinny Vincent lawsuit written ALL OVER IT!!

    ......If I had been advising KISS, I probably would have them asked to remove any of Vinny's tracks.......he has sued them for so many things it's not even funny.

    I recall he sold his "publishing" shares on "Creatures", "Lick it Up" and "Revenge" ......that was NEVER in dispute. He sold his publishing, and there is nothing untoward about that.

    He retained his "Writer's share" so he STILL collects performance royalties on everything. (I don't think you should legally be ABLE to sell your writer's share, nor do I think "work-for-hire" writing gigs should be legal.)

    So, Vinny sold the KISS corp his publishing shares......then SUED them over it.......Why?.........YOU TELL ME!?!?!?

    Imagine if I sold you a guitar, we did paperwork to make sure everything was on record. I went on record stating the guitar with the serial number in question was now YOUR property, NOT mine.....

    ......and 10 years later I drag you into court because.......Umm........I want MORE MONEY!?!??!

    I think Vinny's argument was that "Beat street music" the name of his publishing company sold you the shares.....NOT VINNY VINCENT (Cusano?)

    He acted as if there were carbon copy publishing rights for him as an individual as well.....THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS! (I realize you most likely understand this, I'm not being patronizing, I'm just expressing my utter AWE that it got before a judge.....who promptly THREW IT OUT!)

    G&P have dealt with these insane lawsuits....over and over again since.....probably the late 80's.

    THAT is why I think they would have been smart to have Bruce replay anything Vinny recorded.

    Bruce could do it too.....that guy is a consumate pro!

    If I needed a ringer for a session....Bruce would be high on my list.....too bad what happened with his brother.
    Curveboy likes this.
  4. Thanks to this thread, I put on my hi res version of Asylum this afternoon. I think there are plenty of great songs that got buried in the digital reverb of the day. ( sadly). Who wants to be lonely is a forgotten gem. King Of The Mountain is a perfect opener. I think a conservative modern remix of the 83-88 material would benefit Eric Carr’s legacy. He has some great technical moments that get lost in the digiverb.
  5. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    New York City
    I think if you go back to the Warrior demo which is what Vinnie was doing just before joining KISS his playing was in line with what he did on Creatures…even going back further to Treasure he was more Beck than Malmsteen. I think he upped his game before LIU, going for Randy Rhoads on speed.
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  6. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    OMG........Just listened to "Dynasty" front to back......

    ...What an INCREADIBLE record!!!

    "Charisma", "Magic Touch", "2000 man", "Dirty Living" I need to go on?

    Vinny Poncia knocks it out of the park on this record.

    Disco production values. VERY dry. Little to no reverb. Dry drums, upfront in the mix. (Roland CR-78 drum machine appears on more than on track....BACKING the real I'm not claiming it's a drum machine only....This ain't "Smashes n' Thrashes" ;)

    Dry, gritty guitars...not overly distorted "metal" guitars. Just a good, gritty Rock n' Roll sound.

    Great material....great performances.....great pacing...the record never gets bogged down by repeating it's self. GREAT HOOKS!

    This is definitely one of my favorite records ever.

    When the original KISS had help to keep them focused in the right direction........they were one of the best bands EVER!
  7. The Slug Man

    The Slug Man Forum Resident

    North Carolina
    Dynasty rules. It will always be in my KISS Top 5 along with the first album, Hotter Than Hell, R&R Over, and Creatures.
    Chip Monk, jeffreybh, carlwm and 4 others like this.
  8. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident


    You, my friend have a VERY eclectic taste in KISS records!

    Dynasty, R.N.R.O, H.T.H and Creatures?

    Wars have been fought over those particular discs. It's rare that someone would name those four as their favorites.

    It's especially rare that someone likes "Creatures" AND "Dynasty"

    .......Perhaps you are the CHOSEN ONE!

    Prophesied on "The Elder".....Sent to finally bring peace to the KISS Army!

    I will listen to "Escape from the island" in your honor now.......
  9. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    And I'll say it again, because it's worth repeating... many records play out in the same way.

    There's a few "hits" (Hopefully) then the "Filler" tracks all kind of blend together.

    That is to say, unless you listen to the record several times. Certain sections of the record all tend to sound the same.

    "Dynasty" is a great blueprint for how to make a record. No two songs sound the same. Every song makes a unique statement, every song is memorable in its own way.

    Vinny Poncia is one hell of a producer.

    Here's a fun fact...Gergeio Moroder was actually supposed to produce "Dynasty" but KISS wasn't willing to wait to fit in to his schedule.

    They were somewhat desperate to make a big comeback after the solo records had not succeeded as they hoped they would. And figured they needed to do it FAST!

    "Dynasty" is their second best selling studio record, so in that respect, it was a huge success. The tour however, from what I've read, was not as successful as past tours.

    ....I LOVE what Vinny Poncia did with KISS. I LOVE "Unmasked" and "Dynasty".....But I would have loved to hear a Geogio Moroder produced KISS record too.
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  10. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Having heard those Warrior demos now......I have to wonder...

    .....What happened to Vinny?!?!?

    Almost anyone you ask about him will say "Well....he's a GREAT songwriter....BUT...."

    Personally, I'm not a huge fan of his songwriting...but I can still say he is objectively a very talented and prolific songwriter.

    I don't like the direction he took KISS in, or the direction he went in after he left KISS. But hearing the Warrior demos, which are much more straight up Rock n" Roll. And taking into consideration that he was the "Staff songwriter" for "Happy Days" (I.E if they needed a song for the show, Vinny would write it. Apparently he just hung out on set and wrote whatever they asked him to write...sounds like a good gig to me! It would be cool if someone could compile all his "Happy Days" songs....I have a feeling I'd like them better than anything else he did,)......I digress....shocking...I know...

    ....Anyway.....I'm just curious about what made this guy, who was obviously talented in one of the most crucial roles in music....the songwriter. What made this guy all of a sudden become obsessed with winning the "WANK WARS"

    I even recall an old interview where he downplayed his songwriting and said "Well....I'm REALLY a lead guitar player, the songs are just a vehicle for my guitar playing"

    Kids who weren't around to see the "Invasion" would probably think it's a joke if they saw it today.

    Hell, I showed some kids I was working with "Boys are gonna Rock" 10-15 years ago and they didn't believe it was for real.

    They thought it must have been some kind of "Spinal Tap" Mocku-mentry.

    I had to show them a bunch of different things to prove that the Invasion ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

    All these years later it is still one of the most "Over-the-top" things to ever come out of Pop music.

    It is BIZZARE that Vinny was so obsessed with proving he could wank faster than anyone else.

    .....I just wonder where that whole thing came from.

    I always say, the three craziest people in Pop music history are Axl Rose, Micheal Jackson...and VINNY VINCENT!
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  11. Curveboy

    Curveboy Forum Resident

    New York City
    Yet I still maintain Invasion is the greatest metal album of all time and Animal the greatest metal song in history.
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  12. The Slug Man

    The Slug Man Forum Resident

    North Carolina
    You give me too much credit...I am just a boy.
  13. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    "Animal" is that on the first record? I'll have to look.

    It's funny 30 years later, and I don't think there's ever been an act since that was as "over-the-top" as the VV invasion.
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  14. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    But you have the look of a champion.....a real champion!
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  15. jeffreybh

    jeffreybh Forum Resident

    I'd argue that Nitro is in the same league of "over-the-top" as the VV invasion:laugh:

    Not throwing shade on either one, I get a kick out of both! :laugh:

  16. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    You get past the obvious distractions....and that isn't a bad chorus at all.

    ....But....WOW!....I think I remember these guys....didn't they do like....mail order music lessons or something???

    Is the singers name "Jim Gillette"?

    If so, I recall his ads in Rock mags, he claimed, like, a six octave range or something? Also, I seem to remember him claiming he could absolutely break glass with his voice.

    ....Which makes me wonder why I never ordered his lessons?!

    Speaking of mail order music lessons....does anyone remember "Guy-Man-Dude"????????
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  17. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Richmond, Virginia
    breaking glass isn't that hard and doesn't require a huge range. you just have to find the frequency of the glass. the singer is jim gillette
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  18. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Speaking of Vinny and "Over the top-ness"

    I read somewhere, that when recording the first Invasion record, Vinny tracked his guitars in some warehouse. He had marshall stacks pilled up to the ceiling.

    It was apparently one of the most....well.....OVER THE TOP recording setups the engineer had ever seen.

    I don't know how familiar Vinny was with phase issues in the recording process, I can't imagine trying to keep all those mics and signal sources in phase, but apparently he was just like "MORE...BIGGER!...MORE!....BIGGER!!!!"

    VV WAS the 80's!
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  19. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident


    So...I don't need to give up the dream?

    I totally remember Jim Gillettes vocal, mail order courses.

    Was Nitro just a vehicle to sell the lessons?
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  20. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Richmond, Virginia

    if you find the frequency of a glass you can break it by hitting that frequency

    nitro was just a really extreme band. gillette had a huge range

    jeffreybh, Doggiedogma and deeluxdx7 like this.
  21. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Richmond, Virginia
  22. Chip Monk

    Chip Monk Well-Known Member

    Based upon seeing your post here now, I'm going to buckle down & listen to Vinnie Vincent Invasion, & Animal tonight on the YouTube. I've never heard it before. It's quite a statement you made.

    Initially, I logged in to point out Creatures has other guitarist's & songwriters in addition to Vinnie, ( which you & most others probably already know), but read the whole last 2 pages & your post caught my attention.

    I'll say I like Creatures, & Lick It Up, but always surprised by the huge Godlike praise heaped upon Vinnie Vincent throughout the years from certain KISS fans.

    My opinion is not as high. But I'll give that Invasion a good full listen with open minded ears to see what I've been missing out on.

    Also, +1 about Dynasty. Dynamite album start to finish. Sonically suburb magnificent mix, & stands the test of time.

    Dirty Livin' is spectacular. I agree with others who have already mentioned Charisma, etc,

    Ideally- A Super Deluxe Edition of Dynasty would be a nice treat. Demo's & Live stuff.

    Once a KISS fan, Always a KISS fan. You can't shake it loose even if you tried.

  23. The Slug Man

    The Slug Man Forum Resident

    North Carolina
    I remember him. I think he had a column in Guitar School in the very early '90s. Personally, I was always tempted to splurge on Metal Method by Doug Marks. I remember he had a Q&A in one of his ads and someone asked him where he got his hair extensions. He said, "I don't have extensions. I gained my hair the old fashioned way...I grew it. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful." (This was a takeoff on those shampoo commercials featuring Kelly Le Brock).
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  24. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Haha! Great "Laconian wit" there by....was that Doug Marks or "Guy-Man-Dude?

    I actually don't remember Doug Marks, but I remember "The Dude" played a double necked guitar......but not like Rick was double necked on OPPOSITE sides!

    And he would "Tap-wank" one handed on both necks simultaneously......

    .......*Sigh*......At the time I just thought "What a douche bag*, you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

    Rock n' Roll was a lot more fun when people didn't take themselves too seriously.
    The Slug Man likes this.
  25. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    "Dynasty" in my opinion, is in the highest caliber of classic records. It is close to "flawless" as any record could get.

    I never understood the VV worship either!

    I thought "Creatures" was what it was....a quality record, though not one quite suited to my tastes. And personally disappointing that KISS were essentially becoming a different band. But I never doubted it's quality, even though it's not really my cup of tea....

    ....."Lick it up" The record VV REALLY contributed to......umm.....I talked to Eric Carr's Drum Roadie once. He said Eric asked him how he liked the new record. The guy told Eric "It sounds like a bad Armoured Saint record"

    I get that VV has a loyal fan base. That's cool......I just do not get the cross pollination with KISS. The type of music VV made was the antithesis of the KISS sound. It turned fans like me off in a BIG WAY.

    When you show up for "Dirty Living" and end up getting "Not for the innocent" It can leave you feeling a little ripped off.
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