Lacking punch in current system....

The Lounge punches way above its price point.

Besides, consider this: you are thinking of adding a sub to the system, and at the same time entertaining the suggestion of removing the Lounge from your system because... it has too much bass?

Hello...?

Ask your dealer to lend you an amp with about 200 wpc - see if it gets you punch you're looking for. It certaibly did for me.

 

By my definition, “punch” isn’t to do with the “quantity” of bass, it’s more to do with the speed at which bass notes start and stop. So adding a sub-woofer might well give you less punch and more “bloat” instead.

Without knowing any of those components individually, it’s impossible to say which is the more responsible for the lack you describe. Someone suggested earlier trying a different source, such as a CD player. That’s how I’d start to identify the culprit anyway. Another was making sure your system has the correct phase polarity.

 

Could be. Maybe get something like the A-S1100 minimum in (I've seen them go for great prices used) or something and start there... if you like Yamaha which many do for good reason. LS50 like quality watts too! If that doesn't do it, the phono pre is always an option too.... personally I would start with the amp, but that's just me.

Your system deserves the next step IMHO in the amp realm.... it's worth a try.

 

@Chester0711 - I just thought of something --- @mike catucci has done a lot of experimenting with the LS50's, was and still think is a Lounge Silver owner --- but don't recall the different amps he used. I think he was last running an upper end VPI TT.....

I bet he could give some ideas too.

 

The amp has plenty of power...more than the high end of the KEF specs (25W-100W). The problem is the speakers....they have a 5.25-inch driver, 85 dB sensitivity, and bottom out at 47Hz. Honestly, I'd replace the speakers with a floorstanders to deliver more slam and low end bass and even then consider a sub as well. The bandaid approach will be simply a sub but I'd bet in a year you'll be opting for a more dynamic speaker anyway.

 

Though I would probably recommend at the very least a small sub long term to anyone running book shelfs, even the vaunted LS50, I think you are underestimating the LS50 in terms of watts required, and then in terms of how dynamic and well they can image in a well balanced system.

 

Possibly...and maybe I've never heard a truly well balanced system that was anchored by a pair of KEF LS50s. I've always found them to be an overhyped, and somewhat leaning to the cool and analytical side. I admittedly probably have a ear that prefers easier-to-drive speakers that lean to the warm side.

 

Maybe you've heard more than I did.... there are definitely a lot of different opinions on that front, that's for sure! Some swear by them.... others of course give feedback along the lines of what you did....

I actually started a thread a few months back when they dropped the price to $899, and was tempted to try them for myself, but ultimately never pulled the trigger on them. My recollection of them in other systems was always favorable - good dynamics and imaging - but of course music memory can be fleeting and it's all system dependent.

 

You've probably have already done this, but I didn't catch it in the thread if you did; have you tried the phono amp in the Yamaha bypassing the Lounge? If so, did that sound more punchy or closer to the sound you want?

I have LS50, Marantz 8006, Pro-ject, Bronze, Energy ESW C8 sub (cheap). Room is 12 x 20 with the dinning somewhat separated to one side. Speakers are about 20" from the wall and have one set of the baffles in the speakers. The sub's volume is set pretty low.

I just played side A of Thomas Dolby's Aliens Ate my Buick and "Pulp Culture" (along with the entire side) is very punchy, detailed, and defined to my ears.


Although one man's punch could be another's flub.

Happy searching,
Colin

 

One hellaofa punchy album right there, any format

 

12' x 12' room likely the problem. Likely big bass peaks and nulls. The nulls are causing the lack of punch.

 

definition now? you had me then you lost me....

 

Id say speaker positioning and room treatments would be a place to start. And cheap of you're going DIY!

 

yep...the thread is going in a totally different direction with "definition" vs " "punch". Now I'm thinking room acoustic treatment may be needed - a mix of absorption and diffusion. If detail is getting obscured then let's scratch the recommendations on subs, new amps, or even new speakers...there is either a source issue or a room issue.

 

Bottom line is we can't hear what the OP is hearing, and don't have his subjective preferences....... and we're all of course just conjecturing what the "problem" might be..... but isn't that the case for many threads?

Who knows, if you were sitting next to the OP, you might have an entirely different conclusion on what you're hearing or what might be lacking.... one's persons "punch" is another persons "koolaid" if you catch my drift.

But just stating the obvious...... it is hard to conclude what needs "changing" if anything......... but the OP is getting some ideas, and that is probably what he is after.

 

Play this album through your stereo, OP. If it doesn't sound "punchy" or "defined" then something is seriously wrong. It should be on streaming services if you don't have a copy.

Gang Of Four - Entertainment!

 

i would agree with you but punch is fairly specific when it comes to audio. you usually know it when you hear it- or when you don't.

 

For everyone who went off in the “punch” = “dynamics” direction, isn’t there an important clue here?

There shouldn’t be a listener alive who thinks that “dynamics sound artificial.” Quite the opposite: a lack of dynamics, more than anything else, and maybe more than everything else combined, is what’s responsible for most speakers’ artificial sound. My experience is that dynamic capability and lifelike sound move together in pretty direct proportion.

The OP is referring to something different—and it may well be definition or detail. If that’s the case, then I’m impressed by the company he keeps. I find excessive definition or detail unnatural (or “artificial”) and fatiguing, too. (As do many, I know—despite the industry’s obvious preference for it.)

 

But the OP said there is a lack of "punch / definition" and wants more more more....

 

says you.......

 

Sorry, but you're making an assertion this means one thing --- and the same thing --- to all people. It simply doesn't, like everything else it's subjective.

 

I was thinking that was a contributor, too. Maybe when social distancing is over the OP could invite 15 friends over and listen in the room.

 

I lobster, then I flounder.

Sorry I couldn't help mice elf.

 

But "punch" is usually the result of compression, the opposite of dynamic, and when taken too far, as in most modern recordings, does sound artificial (though most of us do like it when done right).

 

I own LS50s, you can improve the bass just by moving them closer to the front wall. If you can accommodate it and have not done yet, also try some bass traps.