Laptops and Dacs

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by J_D__, May 14, 2021.

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  1. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Hey forum members,

    I’m seeking suggestions on purchasing a laptop and DAC to play HD files wirelessly to my Denon and to create digital files from my Teac TN-400 USB turntable? I’m trying to stay around $1500 total but, have some flexibility. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    What is the Denon? Presumably it doesn't have digital input or wifi connection, so you want to have a wireless connection from the laptop to the DAC, then DAC is hardwired to Denon analog inputs?

    Helps to fill out your profile when asking questions like this.
     
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  3. EyPee

    EyPee Active Member

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Buy the Allo Boss2 (US $149) and whatever used macbook pro you can afford with the $1300 you have left which should be pretty darn nice. You don't need an interface for the USB turntable because it comes with one. Just plug it in and fire up Audacity. Another nice DAC is the Topping E30. Not sure what's happening in the "wirelessly to my Denon" part of your chain but if you can clarify what model/s are involved I can tell you what to do.
     
  4. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
    Wireless over bluetooth is invariably lossy. What kind of HD files will you be playing?
     
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  5. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    I have a Denon AVR-X4300H.
     
  6. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    flac 24/88-192. I could connect directly for better sound.
     
  7. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Why would you need a separate DAC then? I don't fully understand what you want to do, can't you just send files to the Denon wirelessly now?
     
  8. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    I’m trying to create digital 24-192 files from vinyl and play music in HD through JRiver to my Denon.
     
  9. Davey

    Davey NP: Hania Rani/Dobrawa Czocher ~ Inner Symphonies

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Yea, I get that part, I was just trying to figure out where the DAC fit it. But hope it works out OK, seems like you have most of the pieces.
     
  10. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    It seems like most laptops are on setup for 16/44 or 24/44. I thought a DAC would get my audio to 24/192?
     
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That would be pretty much pointless in most cases. Are these rare albums never released digitally or just run of the mill stuff that's been pressed up an nth number of times on many formats? If the latter, forget it.

    A DAC is also the wrong tool for the job. You would use an A/D converter, like a Focusrite type device for making needledrops.

    That's assuming you didn't want to use the USB A/D converter built into the turntable.
     
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  12. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Some vinyl are rare and only available in limited release and not digital. I really like the sound of vinyl and playing it in my car. I’ll take a look at A/D converter. Thank you
     
  13. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
    You could use the DAC in your Denon?
     
  14. HelpfulDad

    HelpfulDad Forum Resident

    Location:
    El Cajon, Ca.
    I have a couple of old VAIO laptops (PCG-7N2L for one) that have “Sonic Stage” software installed that allows you to “digitize” analog sources via the stereo 1/4 jack. I’ve done this for quite a few albums at 192/24 and it sounds surprisingly good.
    I believe most of the ASUS motherboards have the same hardware, but idk what software is available to access it and manage the effort to save tracks, set levels, set sample rates and bits.

    I really like the “Sonic Stage” software because it does everything I’d like it to. But, I’m guess there’s something better out there that can access not only the ASUS hardware, but a USB connected AtoD as well. Sonic Stage works with a few DSD AtoD boxes, but I’ve not tried it.

    Bottom line is that the results are worth it, particularly if you want better sound than CD. My 96/24 sampled Sparticus by Triumvirat is wonderful. I also prefer my 192/24 sampled Radiohead Kid A vinyl to the CD copy. Before I had access to digital, hi res, MQA, Led Zeppelin my sampled Classic Records Physical Graffiti was my best digital copy.

    i think you can get one of these old VAIOs cheap but you’ll probably need to use your NAS for your projects because the hard drives are tiny. Another tricky part was getting the levels right. My standard REC OUT level was to high for the Sony laptop input, so I ended up using PRE-OUT in my Luxman receiver to set it to an acceptable input level.

    Most important, you must have a good source for good digital. Clean the vinyl really well. Clean the stylus. Use the best vinyl copy you have. And, you want the best cartridge and phono preamp available. If you’re using the standard preamp too, make sure it’s good. Try and set the input level as high as you can without input distortion but with dynamic range to push the hiss down low.

    I’m really glad I took the time to get it all working because I can get great sound without buying ANOTHER copy of things I like nor do I have to wait for a hi-res copy.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  15. EyPee

    EyPee Active Member

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Good for you. You hear what you hear and that's all that will ever matter.

    I looked up your turntable and it has a fairly limited TI ADC chip that only goes up to 48k at 16 bits. Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, but turntable manufacturers seem to have a habit of sticking substandard (very, very cheap) ADC chips into turntables so their marketing departments can print "USB" on the side of the box.

    Do you have an iPhone or iPad? You can test the quality of your turntable's USB/Converter and at least *see* if you like the quality. All you need is an "on the go" USB adapter (aka the Apple Lightning To USB Camera Adapter). It's important to note that your turntable is already a "usb class compliant audio interface*" and therefore should be able to connect to any pc/phone with a USB port (or apple's iPhone/iPad lightning port).

    As others have suggested, a standard home recording interface will work like the Audient iD4, Scarlett 2i2 or far superior MOTU M4 if you can find one. These would take the (line level) preamp output of your turntable so you'll need adapters to go from RCA to 1/4".

    I could write a book on this subject. We haven't even gotten into audio codecs, encoders and broadcast limiting/normalizing algorithms (if at all) yet. You also need a way to peak normalize the sides of the record based across the whole release...otherwise it's a pretty major insult to the guy/gal who mastered it :)

    * Assuming they used a USB chip with broad device support like the CM6631A, Comtrue or XMOS X208.
     
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  16. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    You should right a book. I’ve been using Audacity to normalize and remove clicks. I’m just learning to record and only know the basics.

    I have both an IPhone and IPad. I’m going to upgrade my turntable next.
     
  17. HelpfulDad

    HelpfulDad Forum Resident

    Location:
    El Cajon, Ca.
    I would never dream of processing digitally to remove pops and clicks as nothing is without penalty. Rather than filter the content, take the records you want to “digitize” and see if you can find someone with a kLAudio or Audiodesk Systeme ultrasonic record cleaner who will clean them for a few bucks. I’m astonished at how quiet and how much better the records sound.
    Just a suggestion.
     
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  18. EyPee

    EyPee Active Member

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    It's a good first step. I don't remove pops/clicks because I too am worried about what else is getting removed. I capture the whole experience. Like @HelpfulDad I just make sure the records are clean and static free. I'm also very closely following the HumminGuru project on Kickstarter!

    The subject of capturing vinyl to digital comes up quite a bit on AudioScienceReview and it seems like the first bits of advice are always to improve every analog part of the signal chain first. From vinyl to stylus/cartridge to pre-amp. Once you absolutely love the analog signal move on to the audio interface and digitizing. Arguments can be made for things like DSD, etc, and they are valid, but I consider 96khz and 24bit to be the minimum considering how cheap storage is. The files are somewhat reasonable to store as FLAC and you can down-sample/encode however you wish at any point based on your needs.

    Listening to my (Steve Hoffman) Doors record in my car brings me a level of joy that I cannot describe with words.

    Here are the Focusrite Scarlett instructions on connecting "class compliant audio devices" to your iPad. This *should* work for any USB turntable (I hope). Youtube: Gargageband + iOS and 24bit

    I'm not positive the iPad route will be the ideal workflow for you but it's worth checking out and you barely have to buy anything.

    With regard to storage requirements, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours in 96k 24 bit flac is about 350MB per side. My qaac encoded AAC VBR files to be around 60MB per side. They sound truly amazing just make sure you use Apple's AAC encoder which is available in Handbrake, qaac on windows, or qaac in wine in Linux.
     
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  19. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Again, thank you everyone for your input. I have more questions now. Lol. Which is a good thing as I work through this in a trail and error mode.
     
  20. nnicola

    nnicola Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bloomfield, NJ
    You may want to consider an NAD DAC 2. The DAC 2 is wireless, but not does not use your home WiFi system. It is an independent, line-of-sight wireless connection. They are available for about $250 new, and can sometimes be available for less if they are used or rebuilt, so they won’t break your budget. I consider my set up mid-fi and am really happy with it. I also have a Schitt Modi 3, and a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100. If I had to rate the three, I would place the NAD in the top position, with the DacMagic 100 a close second, and the Schitt Modi 3 a distant third.

    Sorry, I don’t have a computer recommendation. I use a PC with iTunes and Apple Lossless files. As long as you can disable the DAC in the computer, any old laptop or desktop with adequate storage capacity, and enough USB ports will do.
     
  21. HelpfulDad

    HelpfulDad Forum Resident

    Location:
    El Cajon, Ca.
    I hope I’m not hijacking your thread here J_D:

    Does anyone have any experience “digitizing”/“sampling”/“ripping” stereo, 4.0, or 5.1 analog audio to >=96khz PCM or >=2.8 Mhz DSD with the existing hardware on an ASUS Sabretooth z97 Mk1 motherboard or computer with the same audio setup(Realtek ALC1150)? If you have, what app did you use and what words of wisdom do you have for those who would like to do this.

    As I posted in another reply, I can do it with my Sony Laptop, but that means another box to support so I’d rather try to get my gaming box to do it.

    Any information would be appreciated.
     
  22. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Not at all. I’m interested hearing the responses:)
     
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  23. J_D__

    J_D__ Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    By the way, I utilize free software called Mediahuman Audio converter to do some of what your wanting.
     
  24. Kal Rubinson

    Kal Rubinson Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    It really depends on the software. Jriver with the proper driver will do that with almost any PC/laptop.
    However, there is no need for a DAC if you are sending it to your Denon as digital.
     
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  25. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    ^Exactly. If you buy a laptop with HDMI output, you can connect it directly to your Denon; no DAC needed.

    Give your turntable a try at recording an LP before deciding that it's inadequate. Connect its USB out to your new laptop and record using Audacity software or similar. Once you have your digital library started, you can use a music manager such as J River on your laptop to select and control what is sent out to the AVR.
     
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