This is my experience with Disc Doctor as well, after you've applied it to the LP with the brush and moved it around, it needs to be vacuumed off straight away. I've noticed some people say their vinyl is noisier after DD Miracle, that only happens with an insufficient water rinse step for me (or the DD is left to dry for more than 10-15 seconds), otherwise like others have said here about LDS, my cleaning regime will easily move records up whole play grades and some occasions more. And I use plenty of water since the VPI doesn't require flipping a wet record over to be vacuumed and that VPI sucks like a ******* ******* **** After nearly 15 years of trying many different fluids (no experience with LDS though) I've found it's the perfect solution for my use and getting very quiet and transparent sounding vinyl, as long as plenty of water is used in the rinse stage. After the DD stage I can even see how much easier water flows over the record when brushing it. When experimenting with water alone (or other cleaners) you can still see the water sort of bead up or form lines on the record.
Well I've just started using L'Art du Son with a vacuum cleaning system, and so far I am delighted with the results. Tried it on three of my favourite albums - A Night At The Opera, Innervisions and, the Jewell of my collection, A UK plum pressing of Led Zeppelin 2. In hindsight, it might have been a bit foolish to try a new regimen on three records I really liked. But I had nothing to worry about, because each of these records now have a lot less surface noise. OK, so none of them were exactly trashed, but they had enough cracklin' and -poppin' to be quite distracting. Not any more! I'll try it on some on my early UK Track pressing of Tommy at the weekend. My copy has long stretches of clean bits but a few really rough spots. If LDS can sort these out, I can say for sure that I am on to a winner.
It's not a miracle cure for groove damage. Also suggest a rinse with purified (medical grade) water as I'm convinced L'Art Du Son leaves a deposit behind. I mostly use The Right One obtainable from MCRU (Mains Cables Are Us / Brook Audio) which I think gives superior results and remaining fluid after vacuuming completely evaporates fast.
I rinse with distilled water and have done so for the past 10+ years of using the L'Art Du Son; never experienced any residue. Not saying you haven't because I wasn't there! But distilled water alone will be fine IMO, all else remaining equal. Perhaps if the formula you make is too strong you might need an extra rinse, similar to using Triton X-100(Tergitol); mixed properly, you can rinse it easily, mixed to a higher strength and you'll need to spend more time rinsing. I've never used The Right One formula. If it evaporates then it must have alcohol in it. The addition of an anti static agent is interesting though. Next time I'm in the UK I'll try and pick up a bottle to give a try. I've tried a lot of different formula but not this one. Do you know when it was introduced into the market? I can't recall if it was around when I lived there. BTW, where do you get your purified water from in the UK?
It's been around 7 or 8 years. The guy who formulated it sold it on Ebay but didn't have time to continue. Sold the formula to David Brook of MCRU. Originally it was developed for Loricraft but they went with L'Art Du Son for some reason. BTW the L'Art Du Son is the right mix. My reason for believing there is a film left was a warming of sound which cleaned up after rinsing with purified water or an alcohol based solution.
This mix would be twice what the concentrate they recommend. They say 1:50, but you did 2:48, twice the recommended ratio. Perhaps that was a typo? Did you ever fix the issue of the crackles?
I used to do 1ml but it didnt seem to wet well enough. Maybe I didnt mix well enough. But yes the crackles issue was static related.
I agree with Classicrock that L'Art Du Son leaves a film. It leaves the vinyl shinier whereas other solutions like Disc Doctor or Mobile Fidelity have a duller sheen. Some of the antistatic vinyl conditioners use silicone to aid lubricity and guard against static, and leave a glossy sheen. L'Art Du Son claims not to contain silicone, but I believe it's formulated to leave a microscopic film with these same properties. The L'Art Du Son instructions specifically say no rinse is needed with vacuum machines, and again I suspect this is to facilitate the protective film. It also claims to help reverse the damage caused by other cleaners, which again could point to a film. I also agree there's a slight warming of the sound with L'Art Du Son compared to other cleaners. We might say other solutions are like AudioQuest Sky, whereas L'Art Du Son is like Cardas Clear - similar levels of quality, neutrality and detail, but with LADS being slightly warmer. To the extent it's designed to adhere to the vinyl, I don't think a rinse completely removes it, but reduces it. However, it will dilute the effectiveness of the protective film. I do like and use L'Art Du Son, and it is formulated by a chemist for vinyl. I guess I trust the designer. Where other solutions have failed, L'Art Du Son has occasionally had surprisingly favorable results in eliminating clicks and pops on what I had presumed were damaged vinyl or bad pressings. Such improvements require longer times leaving the solution on the vinyl, with a scrub every so often to keep the surface wet until vacuuming. It's not a complete cure, but I have been pleased with its results. Again, I think the reason it has been so effective is because of this microscopic protective film. Sometimes the surface noise continues to improve for a few plays after cleaning. I could also argue the sound evens out (becomes less warm, more neutral) over several plays.
If there is a film I'm convinced it's not permanent. An alcohol based solution returned sound to 'normal'. I also agree and noticed there is often initially an increase in surface noise. I use it for specific problem discs and it sometimes works better. Always follow with my prefered cleaning regime. I think this cleaner is likely best with used records that have some type of mold developed in the grooves.
Depends on how you define worn out. Is it when you can no longer hear the signal? Well Id think that takes more plays than any record has ever seen. You can quickly start to hear groove wear given a certain setup, but are lightly distorted HF signals = to a worn out record?
Maybe you should look up the definition of VG as it clearly includes groove wear as part of the definition. Nonetheless, as I stated in my post, and the whole point of my post that you quoted, cleaning a record will remove the physical defects on that record. That should clarify it.
It probably is worn out however that is an area in which we shouldn't get into arguments or debates about, that was the reason for my post. The grading system is very specific, clear and universally accepted, it doesn't need to be redefined. There are enough shonky sellers around, they don't need further encouragement. Some sellers indeed seem to think that if they have a record which is absolute garbage when you put it through a cleaning machine magically it becomes NM. I have fallen for that cleaned NM bs and that is the reason I no longer buy any records where the seller says it's been professionally cleaned, to me that equals a noisy record.
What, no. There are several systems for grading, there are is no universal one. And since people have different styli and ears they will hear wear and damage differently. I agree many who advertise Cleaned records are suspicious though.
Thank you for the welcome to the forum. I've visited many times in the past for information. I added system information to my member profile. I agree the L'Art du Son film is not permanent, and easy to remove. It's not messy like the various groove lube or antistatic products that I've either tried or read about. I have no data to prove that a film is left. My conclusion is based on observation, and the fact that the cleaner is lightly scented, suggesting the presence of some oil. It's kind of a philosophical question, whether we think it's best to have a protective barrier on the vinyl that might also reduce friction and prolong stylus life; or whether we think there should be absolutely nothing left on the surface (which is probably the majority view). It's also a question of sound, as some of us observe a slightly warmer (more analog-sounding analog?) sound with LADS versus a slightly lighter sound with other cleaners. I think LADS is a good one-step cleaner. I have used it both with and without a pure water rinse (distilled or reverse osmosis - I am agnostic as to a difference in sound, although RO water is likely to be fractionally more pure from what I've read). Even a pure water rinse reduces LADS sheen a bit. My current preferred method is, after applying the LADS and letting it sit a bit, I add a few drops of distilled water and brush that around the record before vacuuming off. That dilutes the LADS after it's done its cleaning. The dilution seems to provide the best balance for extracting the LADS and maximizing its up-side without requiring a separate rinse. I have also used all the Mobile Fidelity fluids (Enzyme, Super Deep Record Cleaner, and Record Wash) and the Disc Doctor Fluid.
Film.....ummm no. Oil.....ummm no. It doesn't contain alcohol, it's biodegradable and non-toxic. You could actually drink it, but I wouldn't advise that. More importantly, it makes my records sound great!!!
I've used LDS for years as the final step of my record cleaning process. I do not rinse after using it - I only vacuum the liquid from the LP after applying it with a brush and letting it soak for 5 mins on each side. No film or other ill effects to report from its use...and my stylus rarely has any debris on it after playing a cleaned record.
Unfortunately not clear to many sellers and it is not just a visual thing. The Record Collector system adds EX between VG and NM which is useful as under that method of grading VG is clearly a record with some wear or fault. With Goldmine VG or VG+ could be used to describe something in great shape or quite worn. I rarely touch anything not described as Near Mint. Some chance the record will then be at least EX under RC grading. The main problem is sellers visually grade and even then scratched or worn discs get sold as NM because they only look in natural light.
I use L'Art Du Son, and it's my favorite. It is always my final cleaning fluid because of its salubrious effects. I have gotten some extraordinary results with it. I mean no disrespect when I conjecture that it's designed to leave something behind to preserve the vinyl and reduce record wear. No, it does not cause buildup on the stylus because it adheres to the vinyl and reduces friction. I think it may contain an ingredient, or ingredients, similar to LAST record preservative. To psulioninks' comments, these benefits are enhanced the longer you keep LADS in contact with the record. Soak cycles of 5-10 minutes, with occasional touch-up scrubs to keep the vinyl wet, work very well for problem records where other cleaning solutions have failed. The fact is that LADS is a sudsy, fragrant cleaning solution, and appears to contain bioactive ingredients that cause it to spoil quickly if ideal storage conditions are not maintained. The LADS concentrate breaks down water surface tension to a much greater degree than other fluids I've used, allowing it to sit in contact with, and coat, the whole surface of the record for long soaks. In that, it's very different from standard fluids that more or less look like water, with little to no identifiable smell (especially if they're alcohol-free), and which tend to bead up when sitting on the vinyl. Clearly, there is something, several things, or many things, going on with LADS that is absent from other fluids. For reference, my vacuum machines have included a DIY Shop Vac based system and a VPI HW-17f. I'm currently using a VPI MW-1 Cyclone. I have not used the Okki Nokki. I mix my LADS to the minimum suggested ratio, basically 2/3 of an once to a quart of water, rather than the maximum 1 once per quart. Again, L'Art Du Son is my favorite, and I do not disparage it. It is different from, and better than, other cleaning fluids of my experience.
