LAST record preservation is garbage

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by freqazoidiac, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Perhaps the problem which you see is the directly result of your using an ultrasonic cleaning machine on your lasted records... I have never used such a machine, but it seems possible that cleaning a record in such a way might just dislodge some last byproducts which are your stylus then picks up.

    I have used both elliptical, hyper-elliptical, and line-contact styli over the years and I have never, ever observed anything remotely like what your pictures show above.

    You also have not ruled-out that other products might have been subsequently applied to these records, since you are not the original owner of these records.
     
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  2. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I've used Last occasionally going back to the late '80s or early '90s. Never experienced anything like this, regardless of stylus profile. I have experienced something like this (though the residual junk doesn't look quite the same) with some silicon oil based surface lubricant products.
     
  3. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    I have always viewed you as someone who carefully assesses their audio decisions :) --- for your needs, why did you decide to use LAST in the first place?

    I made the comment earlier that I never looked at my untreated vinyl as a "problem", so I never tried to find a "solution" by treating it with something to make it "last longer." But maybe there was other rationale --- one poster earlier stated that they were sold by the claims / marketing, which trust me I understand, and would again understand if that was the case.
     
  4. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    I started using Last on new LPs in the late ‘80s into the ‘90s when it was a possibility that LPs might eventually disappear. I stopped mostly because it was an extra step and I was lazy. Now when I pull out one of those to play I see no residue on my stylus, and the LPs still sound good as new, at least in so far as I can tell without a time machine.
    JohnK
     
  5. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Well, at first it was 25 years ago, I was just trying out all kinds of things that I thought I was supposed to try. And while I still have bottle of the stuff I don't routinely use it. But I will say, I do think that reducing stylus groove friction generally is a good thing and getting your records squeaky clean, while it has other benefits, does the opposite and the possibility of a substance that can reduce friction and line the burr-like surface of the vinyl (if you look at vinyl groves, it's not like they're highly polished surfaces) would lower tracking distortion, and lower vinyl whoosh sorts of noise. So I experimented with a bunch of different things that might reduce the friction (and I know Last does not claim to reduce friction). Most were very hard to apply evenly in sufficiently limited quantities and did more harm than good (though I thought Gruv Glide, which I haven't used in decades and is a tallow based lube and anti-static agent, actually worked pretty well). Last seemed to go on evenly and lightly and, in contrast to the OPs experience, as I said, I've never found any problem of any sort with residue using it. None at all. Nor any loss of HF. Were there sonic or wear related differences that I could attribute to it? Not enough in the end for me to make a habit of routinely applying it. Did it improve tracking and noise? Maybe. I never actually had the same record, one Last treated, one not, that I could A/B compare in any kind of reasonable way.
     
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  6. ggergm

    ggergm   If you want to   sing out, sing out

    Location:
    Minnesota
    I've used LAST continuously since the 1980s. I don't apply it to records nearly as often as I used to but then, I don't play most of my records as often as I used to. I've never seen anything like the OP describes.

    I'm also waiting for the answer to a question asked by others: how do you de-LAST a record? I know how to remove the sticker. Does that help?
     
  7. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    You seem to have misunderstood my post. I did not simply try Last because of their adds inside of Audio Magazine.

    I was sold on this product by a local audio dealer which used to play records all day long, 6 days a week, back in the 80s. I used to hang-out at this place on Saturdays when I was in high-school. They played certain favorite tracks from various demo records of theirs hundreds of times each. And with such heavy usage, they tended to wear-out these records quite quickly. But they swore up and down to me that after they started using Last record preservative, that their demo records started lasting considerably longer than they had previously. So, based on this personal testimony of people who I had come to know pretty well, I decide to try some Last products.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  8. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Thanks for sharing that, I could and can relate........................
     
  9. LitHum05

    LitHum05 Disco es Cultura

    Location:
    Taipei, Taiwan
    This looks like what happened to me once during a wood glue cleaning attempt.
     
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  10. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    I've used the product about 5- 8 years ago and have some with stickers that are much older. I've never had a problem with residue or sonically.
    I no longer use it but am not concerned when I see an lp with a sticker.
     
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  11. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    For me, with all the used LP's I got with the sticker, there was always a correlation to the LP either sounding off, or those LP's having a high percentage of being poorly cared for.

    That's why I have developed a distaste for it to date - based on the results I got for the 50 or so LP's I had with last applied at an earlier time....

    ... but I guess mine is not a complete picture, or could be construed as a small or potentially slanted sample size.

    I am learning something here, keeping an open mind. Even though typically if you used something, I would slam the door on rep alone...........:hide::cheers::angel:
     
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  12. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    To each their own, but I am comparing sonics to untreated vs treated on the same LP. It didn't seem to help, but it didn't hurt. I decided to stop using it as my library grew and the LP's were no longer in heavy rotation ....so no benefit did I see.
    Without a 'before' point of reference your sampling does not tell one anything.
     
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  13. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Who know what's happened to a used album before you bought it? Hardly a controlled experience with Last. I've never experienced any of these effects people are ascribing to Last. I do think I heard smoother high frequency tracking when I used it, but who knows really. I also used Stylast for a while. But in the end it was all too much of pain vs. just playing the album.

    Still, a poorly cared for album sounding "off"...well, you know, its a used, poorly cared for album. Most used albums don't usually sound the best anyway. I mean, I don't buy vinyl too much anymore unless there's something that's only available that way, but even then, I won't buy it unless its in near mint, all but unplayed condition. Not worth the noise otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  14. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Never implied it was a controlled experience.......... that was the point I made in the rest of the post:
    Still don't see a need to buy / try it though --- I have never viewed untreated vinyl as a problem requiring a "solution" (like LAST).
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  15. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I've used LAST for a while, and it works fine as advertised, for record preservation. Never any residue, like in the picture, or otherwise. Most of my styli are elliptical of hyper-elliptical, with one conical - all work just fine.

    I believe your END-OF-THE WORLD-CATASTROPHE-styled post is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, especially considering your open admission that you've never used LAST yourself, and here you get accounts from first-hand users who vouch for the product.

    The reason I stopped using it is simple math. LAST is supposed to prolong the useful life of a record from an average of 50 plays to 200 plays. Now, I have about 700 records today, and the collection is growing, pretty constantly. Even at the nominal 50 plays per record, multiplied by 700 records I own, we're talking 35,000 plays. Multiply by 200 instead, and you get 140,000 plays. It begs the question - where the f... am I going to find time for 35,000 plays of my collection (that keeps on growing), let alone for 140,000? Especially considering I also estimate to have close to 2,000 CD's that need some playing, as well.

    My point, put simply, is that given the size of my music collection, I doubt I will ever put even 50 plays onto any one record I own within what's left of my life. So, prolonging that useful life to 200 plays is a moot point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  16. Iuse both Last treatment for records and Stylast for my AT VM540ML cart that in April will be two years old and with quite a lot of use and at least Stylast does what it advertizes. My stylus is in mint condition, we had a look at it with aUSB microscope and it looked like new and it sounds like when the cart was first broken in. If Stylast seems do what it says at least for me,why shouldn't LAST record treatment?
    A year and a half ago my 2015 Bellman mastered LP fell off my hand and went straight to the floor. Needless to say I needed a new copy so I got one from Amazon Spain.
    I first gave it a listen to checck for pop and clicks and it didn't have a single one, gave it a good dry cleaning using Mobile Fidelity's brush and then applied LAST record treatment and both sides play exactely like the day I got it, I always keepmy records clean, give them a brushing with a microfiber brush before playing, use LAST Stylst with every side playing and clean the needle with Vinyl Passion after each side and start the process againg for the second side. An once a week I wt clean my stylus with an Audio Technica Stylus cleaning, I don't remember the referenceand I don't have with me.
    LAST products work for me, if not I would have noticed, for good or bad,in this case for good, after two years.
     
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  17. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    Wow! How long does it take you to spin an LP?
    And wet cleaning once a week seems excessive! And probably detrimental.
     
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  18. Mr. Bewlay

    Mr. Bewlay The autochanger switched as I filled my sandwich..

    Location:
    Denver CO
    I've never "worn out" a record, ever. Keep them clean, pay attention to tracking weight, alignment and stylus wear. Putting anything other than distilled water on playing surfaces is asking for trouble, IMO.
     
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  19. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    I never tried the LAST record preservative myself however, in my travels I have bought many used Telarc LPs of classical music that had been LAST treated and stickered by their original owner(s) and they were and are among the cleanest and quietest LPs in my collection. Most were purchased by me nearly 30yrs ago.
     
  20. I play my Van Halen S/T LP at least 3/5 times a week, it's an album I love along Van Halen II.
    I don't think wet cleaning my stylus with Audio Technica's AT 607 once a week or ten days may harm my stylus, it's what Audio Technica recommends, 2 or three gentle forward (from back to front of the stylus) brush strokes with the wet brush. I don't think cleaning my Audio Technica Cartridge stylus with a recommended Audio Technica stylus wet cleaning may damage my stylus. I think Stylast as well as it works it may build up on the stylus if it's not kept properly cleaned.
     
  21. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    I'm surprised any manufacturer rec's wet cleaning.
    Sometimes we overdue things....
     
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  22. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Or overdo. :p

    Totally agree. Just asking for trouble to manipulate things that much that often.
     
  23. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Overdo? LOL.

    We're on a LAST thread......... :whistle:
     
  24. Pat the Cat

    Pat the Cat Musical Goldminer

    I think the original post is very shaky, coming from someone who knows very little about his used records' provenance. I have treated most of my records with Last since the late '80's and, before that, with Ball's Soundguard. I have had no problems at all with them. I did have a noisy Last-treated Capitol record from the mid '80's that I cleaned last year (only side two was noisy and that was since it was new) with MFSL cleaner and that banished the side two noise, so I reckon the claims that their product bonds with the surface and does not add or subtract anything are valid.
     
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  25. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.

    Dang autocorrect!
     
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