Leaving equipment on all the time

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Metalheaded, Oct 3, 2018.

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  1. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    the reactive power
    All gear with a xfmr & caps power supply

    A transformer is a fixed ratio, it can't increase voltage beyond its supply and turns ratio

    no, V will be constant or droop a bit
    I will surge
    Reactive power will surge (not real power)
    It's a weird concept, power has 2 components.
    S = P + jQ
    S total power VA
    P real/active power W, can do work
    Q imaginary/reactive power VAr, no work
    j = sqrt(-1)

    xfmr inrush V and I

    [​IMG]


    A cap also has high inrush I but V gradually builds up to (2 sqrt(2)) / ( Pi) x xfmr sec

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  2. John76

    John76 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    So from what I can determine you have a Luxman L-509X integrated amp. Do you keep the amp on standby when your not playing music? If you do, then you and Paul McGowan agree with one another.
     
  3. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Standby-by is 'off'
    0.5 W
    Power amp de-energized, only logic circuits are powered.

    idle is 'on' 150 W
     
  4. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This has been a point of confusion for me in these threads. Some people seem to consider standby “always on” while some consider standby “off”… I don’t know about everyone else’s solid state amps, but mine does not completely power off unless I unplug it.
     
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  5. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    yep
    To me if designed with stand-by that is 'off'

    'On' is ready to play, when not playing 'idle'

    unplugged is de-energized or disconnected
    If it has stand-by mode and a separate power switch, the switch disconnects it (but not de-energize since it still has internal power)
     
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  6. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I think the whole discussion from the beginning was standby on at "idle".
    Not the new version amp standby with soft start. which is normal nowadays with a flick of a remote control.
    It got changed along the way.
    Hey I got no problem watching this thread all day long, I'm working a getting paid by the hour. Otherwise I wont be here... LoL...:biglaugh:
     
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  7. A computer goes into "sleep" mode (thereby using just a little bit of power). Isn't this the same as an amplifier on "stand-by"? Or have I got this completely wrong?
     
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  8. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    where do I sign up? :confused:
     
  9. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    correct
    Good analogy

    Some hifi gear actually does it automatically like a computer
     
  10. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    Is there a cliffs notes version that a non-engineer can understand? :laugh:
     
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  11. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    On idle about 1.5 hours
    The probe is in 1/8th inch


    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Yes
    Inrush
    V constant
    I surges then levels
    No real power, no damage, only charges caps

    :winkgrin:
     
  13. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    So why did I experience popping from a perfectly good tube three seconds after power off that went away upon replacement? The amp manufacturer said it was most likely (90% in his experience) a tube problem. Most likely from a microscopic defect in the tube that occurs when voltage spikes just after power off? Also commented that the tubes see their highest voltage at power on and power off.

    You are suggesting what again? That that isn't the case? I want to understand what you are saying and showing.

    I'm leaning towards believing the amp builder especially since replacing the perfectly fine tube that worked under normal conditions solved the problem that occurred three seconds after switching the power off. Exactly as he predicted it would.

    I'm no engineer. Just trying to wrap my head around what you are saying versus experience and direct comments from the man himself.
     
  14. Pythonman

    Pythonman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I leave my amp in standby and turn it on an hour or two before listening when possible. The preamp and phono stage stay on all the time generally.
     
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  15. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    If I shutdown my pc (Win10), it’s shut down - it never goes into sleep mode.
    Sleep is a different mode I never use.
    Both hibernation and sleep are “less off” than shutdown.
    However, after shutdown, the indicator LEDs on the motherboard are still on, including the segment display showing it’s in S4 state.
    So that can be considered as the equivalent of an amp in stand-by.
     
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  16. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Believe whom you choose, Just conveying my limited understanding. I'm not trying to convince you and the concept is difficult to grasp without the math. The V is higher when on and off, before 'on' it is 0, before 'off' is is some value > 0. But it is the same in between.
    The surge is current.

    There is a difference between on/charging and off/discharging. The pop was due to a bad tube. Not an increase in V, as you noted it went away upon replacement.

    In an AC system you will get a switching transients that will increase V > nominal.
    Your power supply output is DC.
    What would have to happen is your amp would have to increase the grid V. Not likely.

    An L (speaker) and C (caps) circuit has an inherent resonant freq ~ 1/(2 Pi (sqrt(LC)), when switching off the power in C oscillates between L and C until dissipated by R in the speaker, amp, wire.
    This happens very quickly, the pop is and AC signal otherwise you would not hear it.
    The reactive power bounces back and forth.


    AC cap switching transient on an already energized system, that is not your case.
    [​IMG]

    DC charging
    [​IMG]

    DC discharging

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
  17. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    No problem...
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

     
  19. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    Not really
    Both are idling
    Both expending energy
    Both not being utilized for their intended use
    Both may present a hazard
    Both are primed, warmed up, ready to go
    Performing no work (other than waste heat inherent in the process)

    keeping the engine lubed may keep it better.
    Why do truckers never turn theirs off?
    Cold starts are hard on engines, most wear occurs then.

    A small car idling uses 0.16 gal/hr
    A 12 gal tank, 3 days

    :)
     
  20. tribby2001

    tribby2001 Forum Resident

    I shut everything down. I don't do tubes.

    I use a whole house surge protector at the power panel and secondary surge protectors (TrippLite) at the equipment power outlets. Any electrically conductive wire entering my premise is power and/or lightning strike surge protected - Antenna(s), telephone, internet, power.

    After 25+ years I have never lost any solid state component. Including expensive amateur radio equipment and related computers. Meanwhile my neighbor, without any protection, has lost a TV and satellite receiver on different occasions from nearby lightning strike induced surges.

    FWIW
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021
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  21. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    :righton:

    Pretty much the same
    Whole house and Furman at the gear.
    Cable/internet SA right at the service box.
    I actually drove another ground rod ~2 Ohm
    My services are buried which helps a bit

    no antenna

    so far so good :goodie:
     
  22. tribby2001

    tribby2001 Forum Resident

    I have supplemented my power ground network at the outside meter with a total of three 8 foot long ground rods 6 feet apart tied together (compression clamp + no-ox-id) with 2-1/2 inch wide solid copper ribbon conductor.
     
  23. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Just a dog looking for a home...

    Location:
    Back in PA
    I have three in a triangle.
    4 AWG bare Cu bonding, UL listed connectors.
    2 are in a run-off area so always moist
    My service is UG rigid and bonded, ~100'
    Cu water service also

    [​IMG]
     
  24. CoolJazz

    CoolJazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastern Tennessee
    That's pretty much the right way to do it!

    Flat copper strap (better) is much better at higher frequencies (which lightning contains) than the heavy gauge more typically seen wire (good). Electricians will always go with the heavy gauge wire with no recognition of the broad frequencies involved thinking ground is ground. Silver soldering to the ground rods is also good over clamps. And gentle bends all the way with the copper strap as sharp corners forms inductance which increases with frequency.

    The general rule of thumb is that the length of the ground rod is about how far apart to drive the multiple rods. Closer doesn't gain you anything. So finding the originally supplied ground and start separating from there.

    CJ
     
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  25. tribby2001

    tribby2001 Forum Resident

    An exothermic weld is ideal.
     
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