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Led Zep Definitive Collection (Mini LP Replica)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Gbeer7, Jan 20, 2011.

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  1. Gbeer7

    Gbeer7 New Member Thread Starter

  2. SammyJoe

    SammyJoe Up The Irons!

    Location:
    Finland
    Its good all the way, get it!
     
    JeffR714 likes this.
  3. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    What is the mastering like? I really don't care how faithfully the dinky album sleeves are reproduced really... :shh:
     
  4. CaptBeyond

    CaptBeyond Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Above the Ozone
    Scroll down to the reviews and look for the 1-star review ... that'll tell you all you need to know about the mastering.
     
  5. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    That's why I play the vinyl. :agree:
     
  6. SammyJoe

    SammyJoe Up The Irons!

    Location:
    Finland
    Someone comments on the 1-star "reviewer":
    "All your reviews are pretty negative, not just this one. The Led Zeppelin CDs sound great to me!!! STOP IT!"

    Of course these newer ones are louder but Im happy I bought this set than the way too over-priced SHM version.

    You can never have too much LZ, vinyls, cd:s older pressings or remasters all works:)
     
  7. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    It's all good. :righton:
     
  8. CaptBeyond

    CaptBeyond Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Above the Ozone
    Until the waveform brigade shows up and starts demanding graphical depictions...
     
  9. John Buchanan

    John Buchanan I'm just a headphone kinda guy.

    The Definitive Collection CDs are the same sounds as the 10CD Complete Studio Recordings set, with the addition of the remixed and expanded "The Song Remains The Same". The sound is brighter and louder than the Barry Diament original CDs, but still sound very good. The pick of the Barry Diaments are apparently Led Zeppelin II and Houses Of The Holy. I can vouch for the latter, as I have both.
    The set for $87 is unbelievable value - original label replicas, very good sound, wonderful cover reproductions and made in Japan!!! It's a no brainer if you don't have the Studio Recordings set already.
     
  10. Gbeer7

    Gbeer7 New Member Thread Starter

    Thanks John, i don't have the studio albums. $87, where is that price ? I'm in the UK though.
     
  11. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    Those wacky guys!!!... :rolleyes::shake:
     
  12. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I have the original 10CD set. It's o.k., but I have been spoiled having the original vinyls, which (imo) is really the way to go if you want to listen to Zeppelin.
     
  13. Masmusic

    Masmusic Compact Discs Forever!

    The Japanese version at Amazon.ca is $239.00 I always thought the Japanese version was superior in sound to the North American release? Is this fact or myth?
     
  14. fuse999

    fuse999 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
  15. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Location:
    Geebung, Australia
    There's a giant thread on this set here somewhere that will make your head explode and put you in therapy. I grabbed the Japan SHM set when it first came out. Expensive yes, but at the time there was so much conjecture as to whether the US or UK sets were going to be different, I bit the bullet to avoid confusion. It really comes down to whether you like the Marino remasters or not (there's another mine field right there !). If this one is the same as the Japanese set, just without the SHM discs, the packaging is first class. Beats me why they didn't throw the SHM discs in across the board if the US / UK sets were packaged in Japan anyway ? Either way, it's a nifty little set, if you want it all in the one spot.
     
  16. SammyJoe

    SammyJoe Up The Irons!

    Location:
    Finland
    There are only 2 versions of the Definitive Collection box, cd-version and the SHM-cd version. So the Amazon.ca is the same version as being sold in Rhino-store or Amazon.com etc.

    http://www.discogs.com/Led-Zeppelin-Definitive-Collection-Of-Mini-LP-Replica-CDs/master/284316

    US (the normal one that is sold everywhere):
    http://www.discogs.com/Led-Zeppelin-Definitive-Collection-Of-Mini-LP-Replica-CDs/release/2514985

    JAPAN (SHM-version):
    http://www.discogs.com/Led-Zeppelin-Definitive-Collection-Of-Mini-LP-Replica-CDs/release/1466186

    The differences might be evident but I havent heard the SHM-version myself. a lot of people claim they are better ones but at the same time same amount of people say they are the same, only the cd-material is different etc.

    Personally, I wont believe the discs are that much better sounding on the SHM compared to normal cd.

    Someone who has both could give more details about this matter!
     
  17. Tom Perry

    Tom Perry Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
  18. Icenine1

    Icenine1 Forum Resident

    I own the JPN SHM. I compared it to my older Complete Studio. To my ears it sounds better and the mini sleeves are really nice. The SHM version is going for big money now since its OOP. I bought this for the sleeves and replace the older box. I would wait for the high-res releases of these whenever that will happen unless you are a mini collector.
     
  19. Stefan

    Stefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    The non-SHM set contains exactly the same data as on the SHM discs, in other words, exactly the same streams of 1s and 0s.

    The theory behind SHM-CDs is that the material used to make the CDs is superior resulting in more accurate reading of the 1s and 0s thus with less error correction. The only possible advantage to this would be real-time playback of the disc in your CD player (and then it would depend on your CD player's quality). Obviously if you're someone who rips CDs to disc for playback via computer/Squeezebox, etc., any possible SHM advantage is lost.

    I recall reading the original web site listing on cdjapan.co.jp, which stated that these sets were mastered from the 1994 remasters done by George Marino, with the exception of The Song Remains the Same, which was from the 2007 remix done by Kevin Shirley and mastered by Bob Ludwig. Somewhere along the line they removed this statement, possibly because as a lot of folks started asking why they should rebuy the same data yet again!

    As those who read the other threads will recall, some of us have compared different versions of the Marino remasters over the years and discovered that some tracks seem to have been given a 2-3dB boost using a brickwall limiter, by some unnamed mastering engineer/CD duplication technician, etc. I know this was the case when I compared tracks from the 2003 European mini-LP versions of the Led Zeppelin albums I bought a few years back when I compared them to the 1993 Complete Studio Recordings versions and my old crop-circle box sets. However, it was only certain tracks, not all. For example, on my 2003 Physical Graffiti, Custard Pie was boosted nearly 3dB and in even clipped a bit on the big drum transient near the end, yet the Rover didn't seem to be boosted at all. Someone else here compared the 2008 definitive box version of Coda with the 1993 version and discovered it was digitally identical. For those boosted tracks, basically it amounts to boosting the track volume and squashing transients. This results in some high frequency edginess in places that some people mistake for "extra detail" but of course it's false detail, not the kind that comes from going back and doing a new transfer from the original master tapes using the latest analog to digital converters. In fact, we learned from John Davis, who mastered the Mothership compilation, that his work was sourced from the same 90's 16/44.1 flat digital copy of the LZ master tapes that was done for George Marino. Therefore, all remasterings of Led Zeppelin on CD release to the public since 1990 have come from that same old digital transfer, and in some cases, the digital data is identical on all releases. Mothership is different sounding from the others mainly due to Davis' EQ choices and then run through heavier compression/brickwalling than the others. I recall once zooming in on transients in Black Dog and noticing all the Marino versions had variations of clipped waveforms with basically the same shape gradually clipped lower on the transient as the versions progressed in loudness whereas the Davis version had rounded edges on the transients (yes, I agree that some of us get carried away with waveforms, but face it, they do tell a story. Mind you, when comparing waveforms to needledrops, as is done here, the CD versions should be done from an analog output, otherwise it's apples and oranges, but I digress.... :). The one characteristic of all the Marino versions compared to others is an upper midrange boost that gives them a somewhat brittle sound. I've found some of the Diament versions kinda grainy due to the primitive converters used in those days but if you take the Marino versions and EQ match them to the Diaments or the vinyl, they sound a lot better.

    That's the long of it, the short of it is that if you have all the albums on CD and don't care about the packaging (which is kinda cool), save your money!
     
  20. SammyJoe

    SammyJoe Up The Irons!

    Location:
    Finland
    Good post. And something like that I suppose I read here few years ago when searched any info on this release.

    I have all the cd:s issued in the 90's (1994 Marino) but had to buy this boxset last year as it was on real bargain price also then. I would not probably have gotten it all earlier, but good friend of mine told me its really great looking box and that it had the bonus-songs etc and I could not resist as a collector as it was almost too good price. I passed on the previous Complete Studio Recordings box, hehe even for being such hard fan you simply dont have buy every single item available.

    Yesterday, I gave brief spinning of the LZII-LP on my record-player and have to say its just so different stuff compared to any cd-version I have heard. The Dynamics are just so unique...:righton:
     
  21. Masmusic

    Masmusic Compact Discs Forever!

  22. Stefan

    Stefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Yes, for years I had only the two crop circle sets then around 2005 decided to buy all the mini-LPs on Amazon at the time (they were all ~2003 EU versions). Shortly after that, I saw a cheap deal on the 1994 Complete Studio Recordings set so I picked it up. The collector in me almost sprang for the Definitive box a couple of times when it's been on sale, but I always remind myself that I already have them on those 2003 discs.

    You're right about the vinyl. I really think the difference in dynamics has a lot to do with all those LZ CD versions coming from relatively old digital technology. It's now been over 20 years since someone sat down and transferred those master tapes to a Sony 1610 machine and digital technology has come a long way since then. Anyone who's heard the Classic records reissues done from the masters circa 1998-2002 or so will tell you have different the dynamics are on those.

    I really wish someone could convince Jimmy Page to hand the LZ master tapes over to Steve, Kevin, Chris Bellman, Bernie Grundman, or the folks over at mofi and let them do a decent, up-to-date remastering for CD and vinyl. This is one of the finest and most popular catalogs in rock music yet the only available versions are based on obsolete digital transfers and the vinyl is out of print. A lot of money is being left on the table and fans seeking out the best sounding versions end up paying ridiculous prices on eBay et al and gambling that the sellers are providing honest descriptions.
     
  23. Stefan

    Stefan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
  24. BuckNaked

    BuckNaked Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    ^ Yup. A lot of the SHM boxes (especially Zep) are Chinese bootlegs. At these prices you need 100% certainty before taking the plunge.
     
  25. Runt

    Runt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Motor City
    Picked up all the original Led Zep Japanese mini-LP releases over the years, so don't need this. As far as the mastering, it's relatively easy and not too expensive to acquire both the early CD catalog as well as the remasters to make case-by-case comparisons.
     
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