Led Zeppelin I-IV 2014 remasters considered the best?

I agree...after just listening to Stairway like 10 times and the others a couple times...pretty darn similar. I'd say the 2014 is a little cleaner with less hiss at times....but both are similar. Haven't listened to Graffiti yet. III is absolutely terrific...best I've ever heard!

 

It got louder by being more compressed. I can't make you hear it, but the new edition is more compressed.

 

I know this thread hasn't been posted in for half a year. But I recently picked up all the Led Zeppelin 2014 Remasters [Deluxe Editions] from HDTracks and I have all of the 1994 Remasters on Compact Disc as well. I'm running JRiver with Windows 10, my Network Attached Storage and my McIntosh D100 DAC so I can quickly compare (within a split second or two) the differences between the 1994 and 2014 remastered tracks.

I find that on LZ IV 2014 the guitar solo on "Stairway To Heaven" is really recessed. I was quite disappointed as the drums sound as if they are in front of the room and Page was down the hall when he did the solo barely making out some of those famous licks. The Stairway solo is washed out on the 1994 version as well, but not as bad.

Unfortunately, I find this is a running theme for most of the 2014 remastered albums. For instance LZ III "Since I've Been Loving You" has the guitar very recessed and quiet whereas the 1994 Remaster has the guitar more pronounced and up front~ although the 2014 seems to have more delicate nuances the problem is you have to really work your ears to hear them because the drums are trying really hard to wash them out.

Has anyone paid close attention to the solo on STH and experienced the same thing with the new remasters? Since I have the deluxe version there is another version of STH on the album called the Sunset Sound Mix to which the solo sounds marginally better, but there are other issues with the Sunset Sound Mix that bother me as well.

I have a later issue vinyl (circa 1982), but don't have it with me to compare as it's packed up in storage, but I don't recall ever hearing a problem like that before.

Anyways, I was just wondering if anybody heard and/or experienced the recessing of guitar and soundstage oddities when listening?

Thanks for your input guys/gals!

 

What a mess of a thread. Perfect example of how you cant tell who is hearing what at this forum anymore.

 

Confirmation bias?

 

Have compared the new discs to the Diament cd's, and I preferred the 2014 versions rather easily. For what its worth, the Diament discs were my favorites by a mile until the new ones dropped.

 

This is how I feel also. The only one I haven't cracked open yet is the deluxe Houses -- probably because I have always liked the regular Diament and the Target Diament so well. Can anyone comment on the new cd of Houses vs. the target? Just the main disk, I mean.

 

This might be an example of what I said recently in the Bowie Five Years thread--that the better mastering often sounds less exciting.

 

First off, cool playback/streaming setup!

As for the 2014 vs 1994 remasters, yes, I absolutely know what you are talking about, and I think I'm safe in saying that many others here also would confirm your observations. However, I don't think everyone would necessarily describe it the same way or have the same feeling about it.

I think I can call it a fairly well-documented fact that the 1994 Zep remasters have an EQ profile that emphasizes the midrange - many (most?) of the '94 tracks have a visible "hump" in that area, and are relatively a little rolled-off in the bass, if you look at their frequency spectrum compared to the 1980s Diament CDs, the old vinyl, and the 2014 remasters. And you can hear this difference easily, in exactly the way you say: The midrange frequencies are where much of Page's lead guitar sound is. So if you are used to the sound of the '94 remasters, then his guitar is going to sound recessed on the 2014 version (and probably on most other versions too).

Those same midrange frequencies are the ones that the human ear is most sensitive to. This is important, because even if you volume-match the '94 remasters' RMS levels with the 2014 remasters, the '94 version is going to sound louder, because while the overall average musical energy has been matched, more of that energy in the '94 version is concentrated in the midrange where our ears are most sensitive.

The end result is that the '94 remasters feature Page the most, and sound the loudest (in a volume-matched comparison).

Most folks here prefer the sound of the 2014 versions to the 1994 ones, and most folks here also consider the 2014 versions truer to the intended sound than the 1994 ones. However, that's just FYI - it doesn't matter what "most people" think; it only matters what you prefer.

I like the new version of Houses very much, and if you like the other 2014/2015 remasters I'm confident you will like it too. However, personally I consider the Diament Houses to be best-sounding of all the 1980s Zep CDs, and if I had to pick the sonically weakest of the new remasters, I probably would pick Houses. So for that reason, you might prefer the original Diament Houses, or at least you might find the new remaster to have very little or no improvement. I find them different, but I don't have a strong preference - it depends on my mood.

And as for the regular Diament Houses vs. the Diament target Houses, they're identical - same mastering, bit for bit. Unless you believe that the different physical properties of the actual discs will impact the sound as a CD player's laser reads the discs, then you are not going to hear a difference. The target is just more collectible and therefore usually more expensive on the used market.

 

^^^ Well said!! Cannot agree more...

 

I compared my copies of the Diament PG and the 2014 remaster and decided to keep the Diament.

When comparing the two the 2014 issue was noticeably louder and brighter. Good for low level listening and perhaps exposing detail if that is what you like.

The Diament was better for when you want to turn up the volume and rock out and not have to wince at the brightness.

That's just my take on my system with my preferences.

I think the take away is that you should listen for yourself for which version you like?

 

Thanks for your in depth response and for putting your thoughts together in a more eloquent way than what I was trying to express. I doubt that between the 2 masterings I have heard a better digital copy. That said, I still do not like either version all that much TBH. And your observations are keen in regards to loudness, for sure the 94's are louder as I find myself reaching to turn down the volume when A/B'ing the two.

I'm wondering at this point why overemphasize any area? Why not balance? I'm a detail freak and like to hear all the little nuances that a recording can offer. But drowning out another area to place emphasis somewhere else robs those nuances. I love Bonzo's drums, but not at the expense of drowning out Page's licks and vice versa.

When I think of an excellent recording like Hoffman's remaster of Alice Cooper's "Billion Dollar Babies" I hear a whole slew of nuances in comparison and no over emphasis in any one area. Same thing when I listen to some of the Stone's SACD remasters which are spectacular to the point where I can sometimes hear Jagger's breathing and Richard's/Taylor's fingers moving up and down the frets. So does overemphasis have to do with (a) the mastering engineer's choices or, (b) does it have more to do with "this is all we can do with the original master tapes at this point" or (c) a combo of all?

In comparison has anybody compared the 2014 vinyl to 2014 digital and is there any differences with the guitar solo there? Or are we talking the same remaster just transferred over to vinyl so expect more of the same?

Thanks for you thoughts!

Edit:

p.s. is there any hope for a better remastering at this point?

 

Do you mean because of the different opinions between the 1994 and 2014 remasters? Do you have a preference between the two? I'm actually disappointed in both versions to be honest, though to me 2014 is the lesser of two evils ... but still both ... IMO.

 

I think he means this thread is a mess. Can't someone concisely say if these reissues are worth buying or to save your money? That's all we'd like to know. I don't necessarily want to make up my own mind buying records that don't sound good when I already have copies in my collection. Yes, I want better sounding versions. I can get the deluxe versions of IV and HOTH today for 50% off so I might just buy them and make up my own mind. This thread hasn't informed me at all, if I'm making a mistake.

 

Yes, the reissues are worth getting. And I'm talking just about the remastering, as I have the single-disc versions.

(One caveat: I've compared them only to the '94 Marino remasters; I got rid of any Diament/Sidores I had in the mid-'90s, before I knew any better. )

 

The older....the better.....

 

I think they're the best, but I'm also holding on to the 1980s CDs as well.

 

I'm sort of surprised you can't find more information about these reissues online. Fremer at analogplanet.com only reviewed I-III That guy sure saves me some money on reissues. Also, it's HOTH and Physical Graffiti deluxe sets not IV, I can pick up today for 50% off. I'll probably just pick up HOTH. Ever since I read Henry Rollins talking about his Classic HOTH pressing sounding so great I've always wanted a better version than what I have, the prices of those classic pressings are so high now. I only bought Zep I classic when it came out. I should have bought the whole set.

 

This thread has more than 150 posts, and there are multiple other threads here about the Zep reissues that have hundreds and hundreds of posts. There is plenty of information here, including specific listening impressions/reviews, comparisons with the 1980s CDs, the 1994 remasters, the old vinyl, and the 2000s Classic Records remasters.

Just because people have differing opinions, doesn't mean there is a lack of information here. Expecting hundreds of people to all collectively come to a simple Yes-No conclusion, especially about something as subjective as sonics, is unrealistic. Just do what the rest of us do - sift through the info as best you can and make your best judgment.

That said, for what it's worth, I would say if you are a big (or even moderate) fan of Zep's music, these reissues are well worth it.

I take it you are looking only at the vinyl, yes? If so, Fremer's review - which I believe was mainly of Zep II - is in my opinion ridiculous. He compares it to the Classic Records Zep II, which is probably the worst of the Classic reissues and until his review was widely considered not worth the exorbitant prices it commands on the used market. In my view his review is a major example of confirmation bias - the Classic version is all-analogue while the new reissue is cut from a digital master, so it's dead in the water in his mind.

Does the new Zep II vinyl have that special something in the bass and the warmth of the original 1969 Robert Ludwig-cut vinyl? No.

Does the new Houses quite equal the delicacy and thunder of the original UK Porky/Pecko vinyl? No.

Does the new Presence deliver that resonance in the mid-bass that the Classic Records 45rpm version does? Not quite, but it's got better clarity, and the final track of side 2 on the Classic is a nightmare for most turntables to track properly.

Does the new Zep III vinyl equal or surpass the Canadian red label and UK Plum originals? In my opinion yes, but others say no.

But those original and Classic Records versions are hard to find in good condition and/or really expensive. And the new reissues come very close and IMHO far surpass all but the very best of the vintage pressings. In fact, for Physical Graffiti and In Through the Out Door I've never heard anything that sounds as good as the new reissues, and I'd also say Zep IV sounds different than, but equal to, the best vintage vinyl.

So if you can find the reissue vinyl for 1/2 price, jump on it. You might feel that this or that individual album isn't entirely to your liking sound-wise, but if you buy a few of them, overall I can't imagine you'll regret your decision.

 

That's what I'm taking about thanks tmtomh! I just played the Ocean and there is no distortion on mine . Michael Fremer reviewed I-III reissues. All I took from his reviews is they were close to the sound quality of the Classic pressings. That's all I really wanted to know. Like I said I have Zep I Classic and it's one of the best sounding records I own. Thanks.

 

At least post of the day for me!

 

I agree and now when people come to this post they'll have a much easier time.

 

I agree about the Classic Records Zep I - it's fantastic. I really like the new reissue of Zep I, but if you already have the Classic I'd say there's no reason to get the reissue. For me, Zep III, ITTOD and PG the biggest winners sound-wise on the new reissues. And Zep II and Presence are also the big winners if you don't have the patience/money/luck to get the original Ludwig Zep II and the Classic Presence.

 

I have both the 1994 and 2014 digital remasters and both = , but if I had to make a choice between the two digital versions it would be the 2014 though as my ears tell me that they suck a little less. IMO both are very unnatural sounding with too much mid range emphasis, drums are in front of the band and wash out pretty much all of Jones' contributions, Page's licks also take a back seat to much of Bonzo's high-hat and snare pounds and Plant sounds like he's singing in the shower ... don't even get me started on Stairway to Heaven (or IV in general) as the majority of it is just awful to my ears. If I could say something positive about the 2014 versions ... it is all the extra tracks, outtakes, etc. on the deluxe versions ~ for that reason alone they were worth the cost to me.

That said, of the 2014 remasters I have only heard the Hi-Res download versions though and have not had the chance to listen to any the vinyl versions. My original question was if they were the same mastering with just a different medium (vinyl as opposed to digital)? If they are, I feel I would be let down in comparison to their earlier vinyl releases as well and instead I would look to the Classic series of vinyl over the 2014 remasters

I really wish they could have gotten Hoffman involved with this project. Shout out to @tmtomh and the other posters in this thread for all the fantastic info though!

 

Just because I have to chime in on all things Zeppelin...here is my breakdown:

To this day the best sounding versions are absolutely the original vinyl recordings. Get yourself a nice set up with audiophile headphones and you are set. To me these cannot be beaten. Listened to the original Coda and Presence today and they blew me away!

I have all the original CD's from the 80's and do love them, because they have a lower volume but I must admit the Crop Circles remasters of 1990 were fantastic on CD easily beating out the 80's CDs. I just picked up a used vinyl of this box set, shipping from Greece, because I want to hear these vinyl versions especially of the few songs that are not available on other compilations.

Mothership: I have the vinyl set and do not hate it as much as some but obviously can admit there is some very obvious compression. Still sounds quite nice. I would love to hear the new one but won't be shelling out the money for it! I spend enough already!

The 2015 release run has also been spectacular. I never heard the 2014 Cd's but can assure you they are not what I am looking for as they are hot and loud with a lower DR rating. I have been quite pleased with the new vinyls, sound fantastic, Jimmy did a great job. The Cd's sound very good too but I am not buying these for the Cd's as much as the bonus material. There has been lots of complaining about that but personally I love most of it. I do agree that a few of the instrumentals are not quite as fun but much of it is great hearing the subtle differences. I love that stuff, like higher key boards, or guitar overdubs. Obviuosly, a few great gems thrown in too. I have not yet picked up the Coda or Presence Deluxe sets but will be doing so soon.