Led Zeppelin II RL-Which pressing sounds best?

This forum and ah..... this thread.

 

Just played my LZ II UK plum and then now an RL and the RL is showing without surprise more percussive and bass punch - though I'm glad to have both. Nearly every tone from mids up enjoy more depth and texture with the RL so-called "hot mix". However there are costs to this boost that are evident in bass heavy sections where the vocals and guitar recede a bit. Clean vinyl replete with accurate details in the grooves whether 1st press or quality re-issue is the take home point for me thus far as I dig back in.

 

UK Plum is the second best version I've heard, it's fantastic.

 

Tim, check here: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...abel-a-b-matrices-what-pressing-is-it.417383/

 

I'm bumping this old thread to announce to any members who have interest in this title but have not heard it that there's an opportunity to audition a copy in your home, at no cost except shipping. Go to http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-ii-rl-ss-pay-it-forward.456095/ for the whole story. Pass it on!

 

I was lucky enough to get to borrow this copy. Here's what I wrote about it:
The RL (this copy is from the Monarch plant) cut is not merely louder and more bass heavy as is often noted, but is FAR more lively. This record sounded like it was going to jump up and run around the room. There was some of that ol' rock n roll badness to it. It was lively and you could hear the edge and fun of it all. I was born too late to catch LZ back when they were doing their thing, but I can only imagine how this sounded to kids at the time. Damn.
JPJ (and all the frequencies his bass are on) are pushed right out there on this mastering. The cymbals have great definition and the vocals reach way out. Jimmy's guitar is very punchy. The whole beast hits like a brick here. This fabled mastering is not a case of Emperor's New Clothes. There's a lot of voodoo in Audiophile-Land. This mastering is not snake oil. It's magic.
The re-cut I have is a Presswell from, I think the early 70's. It's still a great sounding record, but does it ever pale in comparison. Where the RL cut had the extra room to fill and rage, this mastering is toned way down. It'll rattle the walls, but it won't break anything. The bass is pulled way back (thanks Etrugen) and the punch is more like a warning shot than a full out assault. There also seems to be some extra reverb on the guitar. This is most noticeable on the intro to Heartbreaker. Knowing the story, you can almost hear the mastering engineer roll their eyes as they drop the levels and do what they're told. It still rocks, and is the version we all know and love, but it's a rough listen after the RL cut.
The 2014 (pressed at Pallas) is somewhere in between. The rumble and punch are back, but it's a bit too polite. I don't know if it's because the master tapes are getting old and it affected the transfer process or if it was a stylistic choice or just a part of digital's charm, but the low end is pretty tight sounding. There's no float. There's a lack of airiness that gave the high end a lift and the low end that bit of unpredictability that made the RL so damned fun to hear. The beast is there, you can just hear its leash clank between the howls. This kind of fits with Jimmy Page's iron fist in keeping Zep's image just so. It feels a bit museum-ish here. But I only notice it when comparing it to the original RL cut.
So, RL is the way to go if you can and the '14 re-issue is pretty kick ass too. Coming in last is the re-cut. We can do without it.

 

Glad you enjoyed it-- I felt much the same way after finally hearing the RL. Are you going to look for a good copy to own?

 

The SP pressings are usually better sounding because they used a better quality of vinyl. Monarch used an inferior quality of vinyl until the 80's, but then the LP's were thinner also. Monarch pressings may sound like they have more punch because of the hardness of their vinyl. What I've noticed with the later "audiophile" re-issues is that they lack the punch of the original pressings. The 45rpm "audiophile" re-issues may be the exception. If anyone ever has a chance to listen to any of the 45rpm Classic Records LZ re-issues, they will knock your socks off. Though I don't think that I've ever seen a CTH(Columbia Terra Haute) pressing I know that they did have them. I suspect that the CTH pressings were exclusive to the Columbia Record Club. They would probably be a superior pressing with Columbia's history of excellent pressing work.

 

What plant is "SP" ?

 

FWIW, I compared my two a while back.
Both are SS sd 2 only
-A/-A, PR, narrow wax.
-A/-C, SP, wide wax.
The only difference I could hear with my ears/gear was on the last third of the last track. It had a tad more heft. However it was so close that I am not sure if it was real or imagined.
Bottom line, IMO, is just look for the RL!!!!! They are all BEASTS!!!!

 

Specialty Records Corp..

 

Thanks Slick

 

You are welcome sir.

 

I ask cos I just got a RL SS both sides SP 1841 Broadway narrow side 2 wax pressing and for the life of me I couldnt remember what SP stood for!

 

Awesome!!!!!

 

its not too bad either - few marks but plays through OK

 

I have a Monarch, 2 Presswells, CTH and Speciality. I noticed the Monarch Vinyl seems to be inferior quality to the Presswells which are my go to copies.

 

With my ears/gear, I just do not hear a difference in the plants, with like stamper numbers. having said that there are always exceptions. I find more often than not, CTH got lesser tapes.....but not always...

 

Are these all original issue pressings or made years later?

Monarch used inferior vinyl, if you can even call it vinyl. They are much stiffer than comparable higher quality vinyl pressings.

 

They are all original as the album was designated for re-cutting soon after its release - to 'tone it down.'

Terms like 'inferior' and 'higher quality' are subjective. I suppose if we could get a breakdown on the vinyl blends used at Presswell versus Monarch we might have something to talk about. Monarchs are less flexible and many have a certain 'signature' sound to the noise floor discernible on the lead in and the silent bands, but this is quiet and doesn't remotely sound like the kind of surface noise that bugs people.
Monarch pressings are well known on this forum as great and sometimes the 'best' sounding pressings. This is my experience as well, I've done a ton of comparisons over the years. They are not always 'superior' to other pressings of course. And naturally....ones sound system or ears may favor a certain pressing over another.

 

This is why I believe that the CTH pressings were exclusive to the Columbia Record Club. You need to look and compare the matrix numbers in the trail-off. Atlantic was pretty good about identifying the different pressing plants. The record clubs could have indeed received later generation master tapes if they cut their own lacquers and made their own metal parts. With Columbia, Capitol and RCA having their own multiple pressing facilities and record clubs, they usually made their own records, including the other independent record companies, exclusively for club distribution. Record Club of America was an independent record club, using the usual pressing facilities of the record companies, so they were probably as good as the original releases. Many I have seen have some record club identification on the album covers and record labels, if they came from a record club. These ID markings continued into the CD era. As far as value is concerned, the record club issues are priced differently than the main retail issues, sometimes higher or lower.

 

I have a Monarch and a Specialty Records pressed copy of the Ludwig Zeppelin 2. The difference I heard with both is that the SP had a leaner presence in the vocals, and had an slightly emphasized mid-range. I heard it right away with What Is and What Should Never Be. Regardless of that, they both have their merits and I'm glad to have found them in the wild.

 

I see your point, in a way. As an "accumulator" of used vinyl for a few years...and more, I have a different take on CTH. I see them more as an over run option for Atlantic. With hot titles, I notice that their tapes seem inferior. Maybe due to demand at the other plants? But then on some less than optimum sales titles, their pressings are great. Maybe when the other plants were busy with the big sellers, CTH got the good tapes on the 2nd/3rd tier artists (in sales figures, not talking quality of the artists)? Anyhoo, I find that the CTH and Atlantic combo is not something to avoid, just need to do the research.

 

It is well-known that Monarch pressings were questionable. Being a cheapskate, Herb Alpert contracted with Monarch due do bargain pricing soon after forming A&M Records. Right off the bat, Herb had a problem with the Monarch pressings and the vinyl they used for the LP's. They had to upgrade the vinyl to satisfy Herb, but it still wasn't up to par with many other pressing plants. Although many of my A&M LP's are Monarch pressings, I have quite a few which were pressed by Columbia at one of their pressing plants:Terra Haute(T1), Pitman(P1) and Santa Maria(S1). Most Monarch 45's were injected-molded polystyrene into the early 80's when they switch to all vinyl, but very thin pressings.

Commercially speaking, at radio stations we found that the polystyrene pressings, especially the Monarch ones had very short lives due to easy cue-burning and higher wear. This was even evident on the Monarch pressed LP's. We preferred the vinyl pressings as they lasted commercial duty much longer. A friend of mine who is still in commercial radio in MO told me that they requested that the record companies send them only records made of vinyl. I never knew that we could have requested that. We were always careful to not rock the boat as record companies sent us 100's of records every year for free. Switching to playing carts in the 70's pretty much eliminated record type or wear issues. About the only industry that benefited from polystyrene records was the jukebox industry. Polystyrene records don't warp. Jukeboxes placed in direct sunlight or hot environments obviously had warpage problems under those conditions. Record wear wasn't an issue as if the records were worn out, they had re-couped their cost many times over. And then they sold them for 10-25 cents each from bins placed in the front showrooms/offices of the operators.

 

Atlantic used mainly Monarch(later taken over by Allied) and Specialty(which the WEA group took over), any other plants used were secondary for added production. A nice collection of the different pressing ID's are here: http://www.anorakscorner.com/PressingPlantInfo.html

Eventhough Capitol and RCA had their own plants in California, they farmed out pressing work to Rainbo Records. One story goes, when Elvis Presley died, Rainbo Records was pumping out Elvis LP's 24-7.