Led Zeppelin Japan 1971 tapes

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Daniel Falaschi, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. Daniel Falaschi

    Daniel Falaschi Live detective Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    I could´t find any recent thread with this topic so I started a new one. Hpoing that some insider might help. What is the truth behind these multi-track recordings?

    We know that:
    1. All concerts were multitracked
    2. JP deleted some? all? of them
    3. Is it really true that some tapes have survived and briefly considered back in 2003 for release?

    Any info is welcome.
     
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  2. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Forum Resident

    Location:
    NH
    I didn't know that the Japan '71 tour had multi-track recordings. I wonder why Page would have destroyed them?? I have the audience recordings and the performances are among the best I've ever heard from Zeppelin. As good as the performances are for How the West Was Won, I think the Japan 71 shows are even better.
     
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  3. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Yes, Japan was multitracked. The number of shows recorded has never been confirmed. The rumor of Page "destroying" them was based on something Peter Grant said at one point, basically insinuating that the band's label in Japan contractually obligated the band to record the shows, so the band reluctantly went along with it and subsequently destroyed or erased the tapes. That said, few people ever believed that Grant or Page would have actually destroyed live multitrack tapes. And then Dave Lewis confirmed in his Concerts 2 book that the 1971 Japanese live tapes were reviewed for possible release during preparations for what became HTWWW/DVD.
     
  4. Daniel Falaschi

    Daniel Falaschi Live detective Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Thanks for the clearing up. I also read that they were discarded because of poor soound. But how poor will that mean in terms of Jimmy Page´s standards? Poreer than Olympia 69 for example?:confused::disgust::wtf:
     
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  5. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    It is unclear if the surviving tapes contain "good" sound. IIRC, Concerts 2 insinuates that the Japan '71 tapes were not considered for release at the time of HTWWW/DVD due to quality issues. That said, as you stated, if Olympia '69 is viable for mainstream release, one would think a lower-fidelity Japan '71 would be as well.
     
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  6. WhoTapes1

    WhoTapes1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    The Osaka 9/29/71 recording that circulates is a soundboard recording, I believe, but definitely not a multitrack recording.
     
  7. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    According to the old Proximity magazine all the shows were recorded: http://www.oldbuckeye.com/prox/holygrail.html

    But new information could've come out since.
     
  8. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Not necessarily. They shoehorned that Olympia show in a bonus disc and not a standalone release. I don't think it would ever have come out as a standalone release but as a bonus Page could give it a pass. If he had more studio stuff, that met whatever standard he had set, that show would never have been released. I think it was a no choice scenario.

    I would compare the Japan 71 tapes to say the BBC sessions. Not exactly the highest fidelity but perfectly acceptable. I can't imagine the Japan 71 tapes being worse than those (or Olympia for the matter) unless they really did balls it up or the tape is severely damaged.
     
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  9. rockclassics

    rockclassics Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    I had heard / read that the Japan 71 tapes were considered for a separate release titled How the East Was Won. This would have been a separate release after the How the West Was Won release.
     
  10. hellion

    hellion Forum Resident

    There's a recent remaster of all the available sources for this show, it sounds great , there having a ball and it's got one of the most intense stairways ever
     
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  11. Roberto899

    Roberto899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I concur about the Winston Remaster of 9-29-71. Great sounding show with a couple of rarities.
     
  12. liboriofriki

    liboriofriki Forum Resident

    Location:
    Amsterdam
    It's a very good audience tape, NOT a soundboard.
     
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  13. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    He let "The Song Remains The Same" be released both as a album and a movie. Considering that, they must have been VERY poor sound.
     
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  14. ponkine

    ponkine Forum Resident

    Remember folks that prior "How The West Was Won" NO one had multitrack sources. All that was circulating were audience tapes

    :wave:
     
  15. Daniel Falaschi

    Daniel Falaschi Live detective Thread Starter

    Location:
    Argentina
    Again, worse than Olympia 69?
     
  16. ODShowtime

    ODShowtime Swirl Life

    Location:
    Tampa
    WHERE'S MISTER BONHAM???
     
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  17. Almost Simon

    Almost Simon Forum Resident

    Osaka was the only ever live performance of 'Friends' I seem to recall.
     
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  18. WhoTapes1

    WhoTapes1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    I didn't think it sounded like a soundboard recording either, but I've read many claims that state it is a soundboard recording, so I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info.
     
  19. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Southwest
    If the Japan '71 tapes sound at least as good as Paris '69 or the BBC Sessions live material, the quality would be viable for a mainstream release. The "Live In Japan" moniker so-to-speak is enough of a marketing benefit in itself. If the fidelity is simply at the "acceptable" level, then it is completely understandable that the stellar sounding multitracks from LA and Long Beach '72 were used instead. Your point is well taken that the Paris '69 tape likely got released out of necessity and because it could justifiably fit into a bonus disc theme; clearly the deficiencies would make a standalone release much less likely. It will be interesting to see if the fate of Japan '71 is that it remains in the archives indefinitely because of sound quality issues, or if it has been flagged for a future release of some kind.
     
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  20. Roberto899

    Roberto899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    There are many versions of this show floating around, not all of them good. The Osaka I have is partially a stage soundboard as you can hear Bonham talking to roadies and others on stage. Parts of it are also patched with an audience recording. Whether this is the definition of a true soundboard or not I guess you can debate, but parts of it are definitely not a audience recording, unless a member of the audience was standing on the stage recording it, which very likely did not happen.
     
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  21. nolazep

    nolazep I drink and I know things

    Legend has it that the 1971 Japan tour was mutlitracked using a "6-track transistor" recorder or something like that. Apparently the quality wasn't what they hoped it would be, but I strongly doubt that they were altogether discarded. Jimmy kept everything.

    Until a version of the Osaka "soundboard tape" is circulated without the massive amount of material haphazardly chopped out, it's hard to tell exactly where it came from.
     
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  22. hoggydoggy

    hoggydoggy Forum Resident

    I'm still not convinced that the infamous Osaka 09/29/71 tape ISN'T actually from a multitrack source - even working from the premise that soundboard tapes don't always represent a balanced mix (this depends upon whether the recorder gets a dedicated mix feed, or whether the crew simply record those source elements sent to the PA), the tape captures way too much drums and cymbal than you'd expect a PA feed to feature (cymbals are so piercing they usually need little/no reinforcement in the PA).

    As for the idea that this is an audience recording, the taper would need his mics actually onstage near Bonham, to capture the stage chat that clearly - it's hard to imagine Peter Grant allowing anyone, surreptitious or not, that close to HIS band.

    To me, it feels like a very, VERY rough (and rushed) dub from a multitrack source, heavy on the drum track.
     
  23. Well there are several sources for the show. Hell, the 9/23/71 show had at least 5-6 different people taping the show!
     
  24. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I have heard some pretty good soundboard recordings. A guy was playing some he made of a major country guy, back in the 80s or 90s.
    I was quite impressed with the mix and quality of it.
    I suppose it depends on the gear and the recording as well as the sound guy.
     
  25. old school

    old school Senior Member

    The Rose Palace show from May 1969 I thought was recorded? If It was they should release that show! I attended that show and the sound was stellar.
     
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