Less harsh than an Ortofon 2M blue ?

Hello,

I'm currently using an Ortofon 2M Blue with a PLX1000 turntable, a Cambridge Audio Solo and an Onkyo A9010.

I mainly listen to electronic music, especially sutff with very deep bass (ie Hypnus records, Skee Masjk...)

The problem is that the records I listen to aren't nearly as bassy and deep as their digital counterparts, something which, I have sadly learned, is due to mastering (they cut off the lowest frequencies so the tracks will fit on the disc). So tracks that have this beautiful weight and depth to them just sound lighter on vinyl.

I can live with that. However, my Ortofon 2M Blue is very harsh and sort of aggressive, in-your-face sounding. It's great for other types of music, but it reinforces the "shallowness and dryness" of my techno records. Kickdrums are too "short" and too bright, and bass is way too punchy for me.

Do you know of a cartridge that sounds smoother that mine, and that handles bass better ? I know nothing will magically bring back the depth of the digital mastering, but I'm looking for a cart that'll help balance things out. I'm okay-ish with losing some crispness and clarity for better sounding low freqs. I'm hoping to stay in the same budget as the 2M Blue, but I'll spend the extra money if it's absolutely worth it. Let's say 500 tops (euros)

If you think any other part of my setup is (partly or fully) responsible for my "issue", I woud love to hear your thoughts and suggestion.

Thanks in advance
Quentin

 

I've never heard or tried the Ortofon 2M series, but I would suggest taking a look at Nagaoka. The MP-150 and MP-200 are both in your price range and highly regarded. I've owned the MP-150 for years and it's been a great cart. There are some great reviews on Youtube with sound clip comparisons. You might also consider upgrading your phono stage. I'm not sure how similar it is to yours, but I had a Cambridge 640P for years and upgrading made a huge difference.

 

The 2M Blue isn't harsh or aggressive. Not even a little bit. Something else is amiss, here...

 

I have the 2m Blue, and not what your experiencing. Great bass, wonderful detail, crystal clear, excellent soundstage. Using with Thorens TD203 turntable, Schiit Mani phono pre.

 

You may want to look at an Ortofon Bronze. Good cartridge with the advantage of being able to use your Blue stylus with it.
There is a dealer in Germany that has good prices on Ortofon. He has been mentioned here on the forum so someone here should know the name.

 

William Thaker is the guy I have bought from Germany for my 2M Blue in the past. Not sure on the spelling of his last name. Great price and free shipping to the states.

 

Are you sure your Cambridge Phono preamp is *not* plugged into the Phono input of your Onkyo?

What happens when you plug your turntable into the Phono input instead of the Cambridge? Same type of sound, or...?

 

That’s the one.

 

I have the same turntable and cart. A few things to look at .

In my experience the 2M blue mounted all the way forward in the headshell barely makes Stevenson alignment. If the cart is set to 52mm overhang move it to 54mm. If you want to use the standard Baerwald alignment you will need to purchase a different headshell.

Also with the 2M and the standard mat, I had to set the VTH bellow 0 (my table will go about another half below zero.) or add another mat.

The output of the 2M is also very high, if you can, you may want to lower the gain on your phono stage.

Run the 2M at the max VTF of 2.0g until you are ready to fine tune your setup.

Finally the anti skate will likely need to be double the tracking weight. So try 4 instead of 2.

Good luck.

 

Perhaps the Op should consider a Grado. Ortofons tend to be thin-sounding. Grados tend to be warm and smooth.

 

Good choice if you don't have the kind of equipment that they can pick up hum from...

 

I agree with all of this except perhaps anti-skate.

Blue does not sound harsh when properly set up, but it's not the last word in bass extension. The Nagaoka line could be good for your records, they will really extract any bass that might be in those grooves.

 

My hunch is VTA is off. Read up on and understand how to adjust that properly on your table. VTA affects bass immensely.

 

My experience with the 2M Blue is that it is quite good with bass.
I second the notion that you should adjust your VTA (and everything else) before making any gear changes. PLX 1000 has an extremely to adjust VTA dial - cue up your a suitable test track and play around with it until it sound good. Just make sure you align the cartridge first!
I would recommend setting alignment using a protractor (the stupid protractor on VE is great - just plug in your tonearm length and away you go), then make sure azimuth is correct, and THEN adjust VTA. In my experience, anti-skate is easiest and most effective to adjust using the run-out groove tracking test - look it up on here. The numbers on the dial are useless.
Finally, run the cart at manufacturer's recommended VTF.
If you still have issues, make sure you are bypassing the TT's internal pre-amp and going straight into your pre-amp, and it might be worth checking how it sounds if you bypass the pre-amp altogether and just run it through the Onkyo's phone stage.

If all else fails, check out the thread on tone controls

 

I will also suggest Ortofon 2m Bronze, if it´s that you want to stay in the ortofon 2m models path. I´ven been playing it for a year now and as I had as well had a blue in the past, I can tell you it´s less harsh. Not that I consider the blue harsh, but bronze is even less harsh. And no IGD as well.

Be aware that unlike it´s been suggested, you will also need a bronze/black cartridge, since blue stylus is not interchangeable with bronze.

 

Yep..what he said....and the ortofons like to be a little "tail down"....if not they can be harsh and trebble happy

 

MP-150 is more laid back than a 2M Blue. MP-200 would be a little more refined.

 

I was just listening to a review of the Nagaoka mp-150 today. Seems like it would really compliment modern and electronic music.

Lot of bass and detail.

 

Just wanted to quickly thank everyone for their thourough answers and suggestions.

I will test everything you guys said on sunday - can't wait.

Thanks again.

 

I've not experienced a lack of bass with my Blue, nor any harshness or IGD. Previously I was using the Red and that cart did sound harsh on occasion.

+1 on the suggestions to check your VTA.

 

I do not know what RIAA you have but with my second RIAA I thought that it were OK and I thought it what it is. It were a German layout with op-amps. That I also upgraded to pricy audiofile op-amps.

I heard so much good about the shiit Mani. So I tried that out. And to my suprise it delivered more in the bottom end (base). To my liking and I was fortunate to find a week link in my system.

Lower vtf give more bas (trim in by ear).

 

Hmm... I’ve never heard the Blue described in such a manner.

I would:
Run VTF at high end of recommended range

Check VTA, and adjust if need be with shim or an extra mat, etc. or with the VTA adjustment on your table.

Check cartridge alignment with an easy-to-use protractor.

Adjust anti-skate using Peter Ledermann’s suggested technique. Check Soundsmith’s website for more details.

Make sure your interconnects are NOT going into the phono inputs on integrated amp. Put them in CD or Tape or something.

Clean stylus thoroughly. Clean record thoroughly.

Play a favorite album side - one you are very familiar with. Fiddle with gain settings, because as some have mentioned, those Ortofon 2M carts run “hotter” than spec. In some cases, almost >15% hotter 5.0 vs 5.8.

If things still sound off, try to find an acquaintance or a dealer with a similar set-up and ask to play the aforementioned album side. If it still sounds off to you, it just may be the mastering/production of the LP.

As a last resort, I’d bite the bullet and opt for a compatible cartridge - one described as warm and not lacking in detail retrieval - low end or high end. Once that cart is installed correctly, spin that vinyl again. If it still sounds lacking compared to CD version, I would conclude it is definitely the vinyl that has a sound you don’t prefer and I would stop fiddling and enjoy the CD version.

Don’t you love this hobby?

 

Going from the light to the heavy range of the cartridge recommended VTF should expand bass. Also, tracking too light, in my experience, can cause harshness. Since both of the challenges you are having can be fixed by increasing VTF, I'd at least give that a look.

 

I beg to differ. I had one for while and hated it for those very reasons. It would spotlight certain frequencies and just do weird things with the imaging. Literally wanted to rip it off the tonearm, throw it as far as I could, go find it and throw it again. I guess I'm an AT kinda guy. For the money the VM540ML is as perfect a cart as you can get.

 

I believe the cartridge responds to different amps differently. The 2M Blue may be great with a tube amp and too aggressive with some solid-state amps.