Less harsh than an Ortofon 2M blue ?

Maybe. I don't care. Glad to be rid of it.

 

Interesting. Might have to do with the turntable, perhaps? I had it on a VPI Nomad V2, their portable model with an embedded phono preamp that has changed names more times than I can count (Traveler, Player, etc).

It was extremely smooth with bloom in the bass. I'd call its sound velvety, if anything. It was going through an Arcam AVR350, if that helps.

 

I remember back in 1978 when I bought my ESS 1B Monitors and I was looking for a cartridge for my ADC LMF II tonearm. I was trying to choose between an ADC ZLM or a moving coil. I was a salesman at the time so I was talking to the ESS rep. He said the MC would sound say to harsh with the ESS. I got the ZLM and never regretted it.

I hate getting into the weeds of this stuff nowadays, but the fact is that two components with the same strength in sound can turn that strength into a system weakness.

 

I had the 2M Blue for a short time. I felt the midrange was shouting at me. It was not harsh, but like you say, aggressive. I now use a Denon DL-110, great bass , good treble. The midrange is smooth and laid back, yet detailed. You can find them for $200.
I adjusted the SRA for best sound, the midrange of the Blue still was still too hot.

 

I'm not a big fan of the 2M Red or Blue. That said, both cartridges have fairly high output and need to be carefully matched with a phono pre. Too much gain will just exaggerate the worst tendencies of these cartridges.

If I was listening to mainly dance music on 12'' singles I'd probably go with a DJ cartridge and think about a phono preamp upgrade. I'd get a phono pre that has a very generous overload margin or something with adjustable gain settings (including something below 40db).

What speakers are you using OP? That might be contributing to what you are experiencing.

 

@patient_ot :

» I am using headphones 99% of the time. They're Meze 99 Neos ; which, I read, are great for casual use (smartphone and spotify) but are "limited" when used in a proper audiophile setup. They do sound great on my setup with digital sources tho. I'm thinking of buying Grado's SR325e (mostly because they look absolutely dope, I'll admit). I also have Klipsch RP150M's... Known to be very forward sounding as well, heh.

» I will buy DJ cartridges when I can offer a second PLX1000 and mix table (one of my goals is casual DJing, but you know, money). I still want to have an audiophile cartridge for when I'm not mixing.

» Upgrading my phono stage is definitely in my plans, although i JUST bought the Cambridge Solo. I was thinking of getting a GT40 Alpha which seems like an amazing device that has all I need (Preamp, headphone amp and DAC), but I have no idea if its phono stage is better than my Onkyo's or my Solo's... I can have it for 489€ which seems like a great deal. Another option is the Atoll HD100, more expensive, and no idea if it sounds better than what I have.

» How do you go about and 'carefully match your cartridge to your phono pre' ? Is it just making sure capacitance is within my 2M's recommended 150-300pF ?

Thanks

 

My blue sounded this way toward the end of its life. I am not saying that is what your issue is, but I would highly recommend you take the turntable into a local hi-fi shop to have your cart alignment and stylus wear checked out by them.

 

This is a little off topic but relevant (regarding headphones).

I sold hi-fi in the 70's and still have my Koss Pro 4AA's. I also have a very good Sennheiser closed back pair (for recording studio work). But I bought five pars of these a couple of years ago and they blew me away: https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/35-5960/full-size-dj-style-headphones/dp/52W8580

The bass was so deep and clear when I first put them on that I LITERALLY thought I had left my subwoofer on. I hadn't. I can wear them 8 hours straight at work and they are very comfortable. They are light, comfortable and are the best under $200 headphones I have ever heard. The only reason I keep the Sennheisers is that these are not closed back and the sound bleeds into the studio mic for vocalists.

You mentioned DJ work and bass, hence my motivation to post this. I'm a bass player, BTW, so that mattered to me as well.

 

I'm not familiar with your Meze headphones. I will assume they are decent enough. I would wager that the sound of your cartridge + the Klipsch speakers + room acoustic issues we all have doesn't make for a very pleasant combo.

RE: the Alpha and Atoll units, not familiar with those either.

RE: phono preamp matching, yes, capacitance is important. You need to add up the capacitance in your tonearm cabling the input cables that run from the turntable to the input of the phono preamp. Sometimes this can be as much as 100pf or more. Take that and add it to the capacitance in the phono preamp. The manufacturer should have the cable capacitance for you. If they don't, consider a capacitance meter to measure them so you know.

Besides capacitance, gain matching with the cartridge output is very important. This is an area where people often have trouble because most phono preamps don't have adjustable gain, or if they do, there are no gain settings below 40dB, which is too hot for some carts. One of the issues with the 2M series is they are known to measure higher than spec'd depending on your example. If we take the 5.5MV output as accurate, you need 35dB of optimum gain for that cart. Too much gain can lead to harshness exactly like you're describing.

KAB PHONO PREAMP PARAMETER COMPUTER

Note that with gain, it's not just gain we need to look at but the overload margin. Some phono preamps have very generous overload margins and have been stress tested with very high output cartridges. Nowadays these are few and far between.

I can tell you that when I started to ask tough questions directly to manufacturers the responses I received often varied from disappointing to clueless. IME, manufacturers that build equipment to order, those that come from the old school of broadcast engineering, companies that also make studio gear, and so on tend to be more acutely aware of gain matching and overload margin issues.

 

I completely agree with you. The Blue is NOT a harsh cartridge, detailed, as compared to the Red, but not harsh.

I too feel that the issues reside elsewhere in they system.

It could just be the system itself, being set up for CD's and with it's other associated hardware, may turnout not to be the best match for the Blue.

Even then, I doubt this would be the case. Some people even favor the Blue over more costly 2M cartridges.

The Bronze is a nice mellow cartridge. It would be more mellow and possibly more forgiving than the Blue.

The Red/Blue are rated at 5.5MV, where the Bronze/Black is rated at 5.0MV. not enough to make any difference with a MM type of phono preamp.

 

If you are using headphones, it seems more likely than not that any remaining bass issue after you have properly aligned your cartridge and sorted out your pre-amp issues is simply in the headphones. Headphones simply can't deliver the kind of deep bass that it sounds like you are looking to replicate. The only way they can try is by drastically bumping up those frequencies. Some headphones (Beats, etc...) do exactly this. A good pair of high quality phones will simply reproduce the signal with minimal colouring or emphasis. Having said that, if you say that a digital file played through the same headphones has the sound you want, than the issue is obviously in the analog source/reproduction, and you just need to play around with the adjustments already recommended.
As you already noted, those digital files are almost certainly mastered differently than the analog tracks on the LP, so it might be that you are simply dealing with that difference. If you want to pursue it further, by process of elimination it can't be the amplifier that's causing the issue (that's the same whether you are playing digital or analog), so it has to be the pre-amp and/or the TT.
I would suggest taking the pre-amp variable out of the equation for now - adjust your cart until it sounds as good as it can get, and then put the pre-amp back into the chain and adjust accordingly to see if you can improve the sound further.
Also, if you are purchasing components 'mostly because they look absolutely dope', you might just have to be happy that they look 'dope' even if they sound bad.

 

The PLX-1000 doesn't have an internal pre-amp.

 

If I'm interrupting the OP correctly, what he's looking for is less precision in the lows, more extension or bloat if you will.
Perhaps a lateral or upwards move is not what is wanted.
It's been many years, but I do remember that entry level Grado carts are particularly "warm". Perhaps that is the direction to take?

 

Alright, found the culprit(s).

First of all, my tonearm was set way too low. I think what happened is that I set it up right out of the box with the felt mat, but then switched to the rubber mat and didn't bother to readjust. Everything sounded more relaxed and natural after that, but still not quite as good as I want.

Second of all, I plugged the TT straight to my Onkyo and used its built-in phono preamp. And wow. That literally fixed the bass. Almost perfect. Everything else, however, sounds like ****. Sound stage is all cramped up, treble is dull and some hi-hats actually aren't even there at all (wtf ?).

So I can chose between : an external preamp that makes my music sound alive and spaced, but also harsh, cold and light OR a built-in preamp which sounds nice and warm on the low-end, but only does half of the job. I'm quite upset right now. What's certain now is that the 2M Blue wasn't the problem.

Okay, ouch, but honnestly the Grado's SR325e have amazing reviews and are definitely a step-up from my Meze's. I didn't mean to say that I only buy headphones for the looks, just that if I'm hesitating between several headphones of equivalent price/quality, dope-looks become a criteria.

Not "looking" for less precision, just ready to make some compromises..

 

Of course you could just play the digital copy....the non vinyl digital copy that is. After all, you like that right?
Why force the vinyl when you are satisfied with the digital?

 

That is a great point which I am going to ignore for now

 

Logic...how silly of me!
You kids.....

 

Ah. Good to know! I assumed that it had one based on the PLX-500 having one. This makes things that much simpler then

 

Fortunately the PLX-1000 very different and much better than the PLX-500.

 

Why is that fortunate?

 

It is fortunate for the OP that his deck is better than the PLX-500.

 

Oh No! If OP thought Blue was harsh, Bronze will sound like razors and nails.

I think there's something else going on in his system/adjustments/settings.

Regards

 

Yes the preamp seems to be the problem. I'm currently looking at the Pro-ject Tube box DS2 and the Phono Box RS2, still unsure which way to go. I think I'm going to pair them with a Pro-ject Head Box since I never use my speakers.

 

Here's what I would like to know. How exactly are these records cut? I'm not familiar with the labels you mentioned (briefly looked at Bandcamp pages) but I'd be very curious how they are producing their records. If they are just in house DMM cuts from GZ based on whatever files were sent in by the label, then I wouldn't expect miracles out of them. So many smaller labels do things this way to save on costs, but the results are mixed to say the least.

 

Are you able to audition these phono preamps? You might find that they don't solve your problem at all.