Let's Talk Technicolor: 2-Strip, 3-Strip, Everyone Strip

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by EVOLVIST, May 3, 2022.

  1. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    I've been buying up as many WAC musicals as I can, even the lesser ones because the color palettes are generally so vivid and enjoyable. One that I don't think has been mentioned yet is On Moonlight Bay with Doris Day and Gordon MacRae. Sure, it takes it's inspiration from Meet Me In St. Louis and struggles plot-wise but the songs are fun and despite the stars being a bit old for their characters, they give it their all. The transfer is WAC's usual stellar job and actually helps to elevate was is really a b-ish movie rip-off of MGM's style. Now, where the heck is the sequel By The Light Of The Silvery Moon?

     
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  2. xios

    xios Senior Member

    Location:
    Florida
    Best early technicolor I have seen lately was from a one time showing on TCM of the 1934 short "Good Morning, Eve!". Super sharp and colorful, I only caught about half of it and they did not offer it on demand. It's only available on a dvd set, but the color and sharpness of this print was phenomenal.
     
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  3. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    Thanks for the heads up. I viewed this on YT and it is indeed colorful.
     
  4. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I'm hoping WAC puts that out as a supplement to one of their releases.
     
  5. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I was watching this, and maybe it's just me, but it seems the old lady is contemplating infanticide.

    That punishment would be a little extreme. I was thinking more like tanning his hide. I don't think I could stand a kid like that for very long in a movie. :D
     
  6. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Mamba (1930) ~ This film is an extremely important part of cinema history, by any measure of a film's status. It was the first all-talking, all-color drama in movie history, and Kino Lorber helped raise the dead, along with the UCLA Film & Television Archive who did the heavy lifting.

    Think about that for a moment. Mamba is the direct progenerator of every color, sound film that came after, all the way to today's fantastic Hollywood gloop. I mean, it had to happen at some time; it's just that Mamba came first, and with it a tiny controversy in 2022.

    Kino Lorber attaches their advisory: This film contains racism and/or the mistreatment of people or cultures. Such depictions, in any era, are inexcusable. The film is being presented in its original form to bear witness to the history of racism in cinema, and to encourage a dialogue about how a future cinema can become more inclusive.

    No worries. Mamba is essentially an anti-racist, anti-misogynist, anti-colonial, anti-war film, with hindsight coming from a 1930's view of pre-Great War colonialism, and what lead to the start of WWI.

    Mamba was filmed using Technicolor's two-color process Number Three, which means it's one of the first to use the dye transfer process, making the film (in theory) impervious to color-fade. Whatever the negative looked like in 1930, 92 years later the colors don't look enhanced like some other two-color releases, meaning less of a garish green and more accurate skintones. Blues and yellows are still lacking of course, yet this is an honest image without looking overly cleaned. Small scratches and blemishes are evident. There are some color flecks and density fluctuations, but nothing of the egregious variety. The image holds together very well. The encode hangs around in the 30Mbps.

    The only real flaw, despite a great encode, is that edges of shadows tend to break up a little, not necessarily giving a digital look on the edges; I'm thinking it's the amount of information available in the print from a 4K scan. The information just isn't there, so it's more of an analog noise issue. I sit real close to my 77", so you might not notice it if your set is placed above your fireplace, or you're 20ft away. Otherwise, the soundtrack isn't the best, either, but the sound was taken from lacquers, so that's what we get. It's okay. There's a vintage feel to it, which is only fitting. We're lucky to have the thing in the first place.

    Some cool bits: Mamba starts with a 1:40 tracking shot that really gives us the lay of the land. Great camerawork, as it weaves its way through a colonial African military outpost, circa 1913. The film's structure is also fly; it eschews introducing the heroes and villains right off, in favor of setting the stage for a vibe, with a plot that follows shortly thereafter. Now, I'm not saying that Mamba is a great film; it's just not pedestrian by 1930 standards. It branches out and tries new things, not always hitting the mark, yet it succeeds in its subtext, some of which I identified on my own, others I gleaned from the excellent commentary by Brian Trenchard-Smith (whoever that is). The extras are illuminating, as well. The package has no shortage of goodies.

    All-in-all, if you have even a little curiosity of cinema history, you owe it to yourself to peep Mamba. It's not going to live up to the recent WAC two-color offerings, but it's honest with a commensurate PQ. It also has one of the most interesting back stories of how a film that thought to be lost was found in 2009.
     
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  7. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thanks for the clip. It got me to buy this film from Criterion. It’s the first two-strip technicolor film I’ve seen. Outside “Rhapsody in Blue” and the band introductions, I found it to be pretty boring. But still, a great piece of cinema history. The special features and history behind this picture were more interesting then the film itself, for me.
     
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  8. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I think I liked King of Jazz a little more, as I only found half of it to be pedestrian.

    I really liked the stuff with Bing Crosby, "Ragamuffin Romeo," with the dancing contortionists, "Song of the Dawn," "Happy Feet," and of course "Rhapsody in Blue." There's also a little segment with that guy doing tricks with the fiddle. That was neat. The first Technicolor cartoon was cool.

    All of that seated choreography with the chicks was kind of lame. The comedic skits were ass (and I generally like older comedy). It's a mixed bag, but I'm so glad that we have it. I agree that the supplements are very good.

    I think @Scowl is right that the colors are enhanced on this release. Somewhere I read that they (Criterion?) added a blue filter. I can't find where I read that.
     
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  9. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    “Happy Feet” sounds waaaaaay creepy to me. I don’t think much old music likes this does, but that song really does. I can’t believe that was a happy dance tune.

    Oh yeah, the fiddle guy was good. Pretty talented. I did forget about the cartoon. That was nice as well. There was other good stuff, but nothing to grab the disc for.
     
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  10. Manapua

    Manapua Forum Resident

    Location:
    Honolulu
    Any one familiar with the 1958 film Enchanted Island? The print TCM used was pretty weak but every so often you could tell there was a colorful film to be had under that murky bluish filter. Jane Powell and Dana Andrews based on Melville's Typee.
     
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I must say a word about "The Adventures Of Don Juan" (1948, WB.) Way back in my first year of college I met this older film expert who had a radio show that featured vintage film music. At any rate, we talked about old movies a lot and DON JUAN came up a lot. The movie was being shown on TV in color around that time and I liked it, not knowing the struggle to film it. My friend told me if how impossible it was to film and how they came close to losing Flynn several times for various medical (and other) reasons. But, without Flynn, no film so they shot around him, did this and that until they could get his shots in the can. Then, the poor editor went to town to make it work.

    Now, I can watch the Blu-ray and still enjoy the film but the drama behind the scenes is hard to ignore. Flynn was so ill during the making of it that the "shooting around him" became sort of a legend in Hollywood. They did it so well that unless you know, you'd never know. Such good editing, camerawork, etc. makes it still a pleasure to watch, even if it seems rehatched from ROBIN HOOD, etc. Heck, even the props, sets, etc. are the same. But, who cares?

    Korngold had retired so Max came in and did a darn good score, one of his best.

    The Blu-ray is quite nice, the scenes (most of them) that actually used the old parts really show off the Tech "look" and the few fades and opticals that go down a few generations have been matched quite nicely.

    My only complaint is that it is a bit too scrubbed. Other than that, (watching it today with complete unemotional detachment) it is a good movie. Flynn makes it so. Even on his worst day he could command the screen.

    So, a fun watch, good color, and a nice presentation of a classic 1940's WB flick. Over and out.
     
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  12. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    @Bob Casner, another three-strip Technicolor from Criterion that we missed:

    The Mikado (1939)

    @Steve Hoffman

    Under Capricorn (1949) staring Joseph Cotton, Ingrid Bergman, and Michael Wilding (who does a helluva job), directed by Alfred Hitchcock, photographed by Jack Cardiff.

    It's difficult to tell who would like this story or not. It's a divisive film among Hitchcock fans. It's very Hitchcockian below the surface, but on the surface it's simply a solid love-square drama, between four people, without much suspense, nor thriller elements. There is a lot of tension, though, as Cotton and Bergman are enigmas who unfold slow and steady. They are a strange couple.

    1831 Australia. At first it's jarring to see a period piece shot in color, as Hitchcock's are usually B&W, but that also makes it unique among his films. They really went out of the way to make this film authentic, especially the costumes and men's haircuts.

    I mention it, though, because Under Capricorn has a very similar image quality to The Garden of Allah and The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. I don't know what kind of non-Technicolor intermediate stock, if any, sits between the OG negs, or if these are taken from IB prints, but they certainly hold a different quality than known contact printing to Eastman that we usually see. These three really stick out to me.

    Under Capricorn has a little misalignment here and there, but it's nothing that takes you out of the picture. Jack Cardiff is as good as ever. Brilliant work, as Hitchcock employs 10 minute continual shots without a cut. The colors are bold, the close-ups are 3D, with nary an optical to speak of. There's one strange shot of Bergman that holds for about 3-4 seconds, where it looks like the lens is dirty. Filthy, even. I don't know what's up with that.

    At any rate, the point is this looks like an older quality source with really great Technicolor "pop" that alignes with others we've seen. It's not a restoration. It's a super print.
     
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  13. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Location:
    Scranton, PA
    Speaking of Hitchcock, we haven't really talked about Rope, admittedly one of his lesser films but admittedly quite the challenge to shoot 10 minute takes with the three strip camera.

    Not sure what the word is about the BluRay.
     
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  14. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    It will be a part of the 3rd, and last, Hitchcock 4K box from Universal, next year. :righton:
     
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  15. servo086

    servo086 Active Member

    Location:
    California
    And just like that I'll never buy this release. I hope you raise as much Hell as you can with your WB contacts. I have most of your Tull Deluxe Editions (and the correct Aqualung/TaaB released afterwards). You're reaction to this should shame everyone at WB that were involved with this release.
     
  16. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Now in Glorious Technicolor!

    Perhaps you meant the Star Trek thread? :D
     
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    To whom are you speaking? What release is this? A lot of the WB stuff is done pretty well (at least to my eye), but there's limitations with how far they can go with the sub-standard film elements that survive.

    If it's about Rope, I think WB will do the best they can to restore the 3-strip Technicolor elements that are available. I think all the execs and managers over there generally do a very good job, and they're very serious about preserving these important films for posterity (and not just for making money).
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  18. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    This forum is for movies.

    I have the feeling your comment is about Jethro Tull, wrong forum, wrong media format, wrong guess?:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
     
  19. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Rope (1948) is owned by Universal Studios. The BD's matrices are misaligned a little. Do the OG negs exist? It would be a sad afrair if we got a 4K Eastman print. We will see, because it will be in the 3rd box.
     
  20. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I haven't seen it for a while but it might be more than just a little.
     
  21. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Used to be owned by Universal. Currently owned by Warner Bros. through a deal with Hitchcock's estate. IMDB shows this as the owners:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    Still owned by Universal. I guarantee it. Look whose name is on the blu-ray of Rope. In fact, before the 2nd Hitchcock 4K box came out, it had leaked from Universal that Rope might be on the 2nd set. Instead, it was held back.
     
  23. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Did you look at IMDB? I grabbed those images from the IMDB Pro page.
     
  24. EVOLVIST

    EVOLVIST Kid A Thread Starter

    I've looked, yes, but I've learned not to fully trust IMDB. I've found many mistakes in their records for older movies, especially when it comes to Technicolor.

    Not that IMDB crap; I'm just saying, a grain of salt. I know you're in the industry, but Rope is definitely Universal. I wish it was WB, because the last three-strip restoration Universal did in 2022 was a POS by any measure.

    That said, so far, Universal has handled Hitchcock extremely well.
     
  25. Bob Casner

    Bob Casner Senior Member

    Location:
    Venice, California
    Thanks for this,EVOLVIST. For Criterion Technicolor, I had been relying on the list on their website I found by simply typing “Technicolor” in the search box and leaving out the several non 3-strip titles there, and somehow failing to notice (d’oh!) LOAD MORE at the bottom of the page, and … there it is!: “The Mikado” (1936) along with “Leave Her to Heaven” that you previously mentioned I’d missed, and MORE more -
    “This Happy Breed” (1944)
    “Blithe Spirit” (1945)
    Both ONLY available as part of the 4 blu-ray set “David Lean Directs Noel Coward.” (Around $50 at current “on sale” discount).
    I had a look at “The Mikado” on YouTube - the whole thing is up, even with the Criterion logo at the start and it DOES look pretty good, BUT it’s an opera, so not to my taste at all. Interesting, too - all the characters are Asian and it seems NONE of the actors/ singers are!

    Also interesting about “Under Capricorn.” I had a look at the clips on YouTube and also unfortunately not to my taste. I HAD thought the only Hitchcock 3-strip was “Rope.” I’m not doubting your claim that Universal has this slated for a volume 3 Hitchcock 4K box next year but I haven’t come across this anywhere except from you - can you tell us what else is to be included? It’d be great if they can actually make “Rope” look GOOD! Also coming from Universal according yesterday to thedigitalbits: another “Classic Monsters” 4K box including the 1943 3-strip “Phantom of the Opera”(!)
     
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