Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

Thanks for the update!

Thanks very much again! I will also need to dig deeper into this ASAP. As for "02 Don't Start (Too Late) [1986 Castle]" in your hybrid version #1: I thought that the tape issues on the Castle already start during Don't Start to Late (I haven't checked if I really hear it there myself - it was mentioned here in Roland's first thread), in which case I would have to go with either the WB or Pearce for that song.

 

Where exactly are the drop outs on the Intercord Iron Man? Are they obvious/bad or something you have to really listen for?

 

I prefer the darker sound of the Japan over the WG Intercord, along with the tape being in better shape (the previously mentioned Iron Man drop outs).

 

They first occur around 0:09 of the song and are only obvious if you directly compare versus a copy that doesn't have the drop-outs, e.g. the 33PD. At this first spot they sound like a tremolo effect on the guitar. Next time I hear them is around 1:01, then 1:15. Those sound more like typical drop-outs/tape garble.

Apart from the aforementioned drop-outs, I don't think the tape used for the Intercord was in worse shape than the one used for the 33PD. Not that I noticed, anyway. Moreover, the 33PD has its flaws too. One is the channel imbalance visible in the following screenshot:


This channel imbalance can be found on the SACD and the TECP as well. The SACD is from a new transfer, so the imbalance must be on the tape.

See also the following posts:

Like you, I like the dark sound of the 33PD; at the same time, it is lacking the 'punch' that the Intercord has. One of the spots where that is more obvious is the bass drum in the beginning of Iron Man.

 

Great post! Thank you. The more I read about Black Sabbath masterings, the more versions I accumulate.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I am pretty much in agreement with your choices. The only one I don't have is the Intercord Paranoid. I have the TECP for that one and it is my go to version even over the 33PD. The rest, I am pretty much in favor of the SHM-SACDs.

 

I don't think it's a tape issue exactly. The left channel is also quieter on the 2009 deluxe edition, so I think the song was just made like that.

 

@blacksabbathrainbow What do you think of the Sanctuary Vol. 4? It is not as good as the SHM-SACD but I always though it sounded OK.
Do you have the later Castle Remaster? It sounds bad but I think it is the only version to have the fade in at the end of The Straightener.

 

Maybe I need more variations? Glad I no longer burn everything, that was so 20th century , a simple cloning and modifying a playlist on my "Rock" NAS will do it. Frankly I do not feel I'll every settle on a Sabotage combined version that I'm totally satisfied with

 

Interesting. I don't have the 2009 Sanctuary (or the 1996 Castle remaster, from which the 2009 Sanctuary is actually sourced, with only very minor modifications) in front of me right now, but neither the 1986 Intercord nor the 1986 Castle nor the 2012 Pearce remaster have the channels even remotely as imbalanced as the Japan releases.

Anyway, what I see on that screenshot is not the main problem. I simply prefer the sound of the Intercord. I didn't choose to - in a way, I would actually prefer liking the 33PD better, since it doesn't have the drop-outs on Iron Man. ;-)

I believe I liked the Sanctuary Vol. 4 last time I checked. But in my book the SACD is far ahead. I do have the 1996 Castle remaster, will have to check if I hear what you mean at the end of The Straightener.

Is there any way I can send you a private message? I would like to, but when I click on your name, rather than accessing your profile page, I am told: "This member limits who may view their full profile."

 

Finally someone who agrees with me that the TECP is good. Looking forward to your assessment of the Intercord.

 

That's interesting the '96/'09 has the imbalanced channels for this track as previously I'd only found this on the Japanese tape sourced releases. But the '96/'09 also has the traces of the Iron Man dropouts which do not show up on the Japanese tape so now I'm wondering if they compiled the '96/'09 from multiple tapes (maybe side 1 UK tape and side 2 Japanese). I'd have to look into that further at some point, but I'm not sure it matters as I find the '96/'09 one of the worst Paranoid masterings. Also, the channels are balanced fine for Electric Funeral on the original Vertigo LP, Castle '86, Intercord and HDtracks/2016 CD. So there's no indication this track has inherently imbalanced channels.

 

It's possible but it seems unlikely all those releases, especially the early CDs, had the channels corrected in mastering. So far it's only confirmed on Japanese releases and the '96/'09 so I think it is an issue with certain tape(s).

 

That would be very strange if they had used a Japanese tape for parts of a UK release. Even more so, since they obviously didn't use that tape to fix Iron Man. However, there must be some explanation for the channel imbalance occuring on those UK remasters, and that would be one. I am not sure which possibility I find more (un)likely: that they used a Japanese tape for other tracks but not for Iron Man despite the drop-outs, or that, as MrEWhite suggested, the channel imbalance was corrected for the Intercord, the original Castle, the Pearce 2012 remaster and at least some early LPs, but not for the 1996 Castle remaster or the 2009 Sanctuary remaster. What a mess of implausible choices!

 

Maybe it's not a *Japanese* tape per se that has the imbalance, but rather a copy tape that has made the rounds, and was used (or a digital copy of) for Japanese editions.

 

Yes, good point. Of course, the sticker on the 1996 Castle reads: "Remastered from original master tapes". But maybe in the case of Paranoid they felt there was a problem with the master tape, or they didn't find it? That might also explain why the 2009 Sanctuary isn't sourced from a fresh tape transfer, but from the Castle. After that, there is the 2012 Pearce remaster. It was claimed that for the 2012 remaster, they listened to at least two different tape sources, one from Universal and one from the band, and chose the better one. Maybe they found a better source for Paranoid that way - the 2012 Paranoid sounds like they used a good source, it's just the mastering that ruined it.

Anyway, sooooo much speculation. I wish they would just tell us what they're doing, and stop doing crazy things, then we wouldn't have to wreck our brains like this.

 

The thing is that aside from the ‘96/‘09 mastering, the iron man dropouts and electric funeral imbalance were mutually exclusive. So it’s interesting to see both on the ‘96/‘09. I’m going to look at them later tonight and see if I can find anything out.

 

Nice! I don't disagree a whole lot with what your faves are, mostly because we agree on a lot of them,and for some of them, I will admit that I stubbornly stick to what I like because I'm allowed to!

BS: I still like Roland's hybrid the best. Also takes care of the WW and EW problem too (someday I'll take a look at those 2 songs individually though ...)
Paranoid: '86 Castle, although for a short time I did like the 33PD the most (I have the Intercord, just not my fave)
MoR: SACD then '09, yup
V4: '86 Castle then SACD
SBS: '86 Castle then SACD (also have the Intercord, nope)
Sabotage: '86 Castle but substitute Creative Sounds versions for SotU & Megalomania; also fix the Writ, left channel: 6:18 - 6:48
TE: US WB
NSD: WG Spectrum
H&H: 32PD then 23PD/WG Vertigo
MR: WG Vertigo then US WB
BA: PHCR-2054 then 2011 DE

LaL: '86 Castle then CS/NEMS
LE: US WB

I care less after that but:

7th Star: amazingly, the '96 Castle
TEI: WG Vertigo
Deh: orig CD

Man, I wish we could get a good mastering for Paranoid, and I'd really like to get my hands on the '09 Pearces for TE and NSD, if they do exist.

I also wish the SHM people would do another run, and add CDs this time.

 

Is there an Intercord CD for any of the other Sabbath titles? The Paranoid Intercord sounds great IMHO (finally got to hear that one) and discussed favorably here. I have not read about any other Intercord titles though. I am curious.

 

I know of SBS and Greatest Hits. I don’t like the way either of those sound. I really like the paranoid, though.

 

I haven't settled on all my preferred digital versions. The only ones I've reached a final conclusion on Would be the 86 castle version of SBS, which to me sounds a little more detailed than the rest, and the WB version of Sabotage. I hope to find some more of the 86 castles in the wild soon. I love the thrill of the hunt!

 

I don't own an SACD player, and this has my curiosity up, though I've recently (I thought) settled on all my versions.

 

I had a chance to look at the Paranoid CDs closer in regard to the Electric Funeral imbalance. Here's the breakdown.

Electric Funeral is imbalanced, with louder right channel on: 33PD, TECP, SACD and '96/'09 (same mastering with some level shifting). Of these releases, only the '96/'09 also has the dropouts in Iron Man. The following releases have the dropouts in Iron Man, but Electric Funeral is properly balanced: UK 1st press LP, Castle '86, Intercord, Replica 70s box (debut & Paranoid are unique masterings - the rest are '96 masterings) and HDtracks/2016.

All of the digital Japanese releases with unique masterings have the Electric Funeral imbalance but do not have the Iron Man dropouts. So it feels like this is a characteristic of the tape sent to Japan. Whether it was copied from another tape that is the same way or the imbalance was created during the Japan tape copy, I can't say but no other releases have been found to have these characteristics (EL imbalance, no Iron Man dropouts).

I don't believe the imbalance was corrected on every non-Japanese release except the '96/09. I'm also not thinking the '96/'09 used multiple tapes. Looking at the waveforms, I see that it also has Iron Man imbalanced in the same way as Electric Funeral. The other releases do not have Iron Man imbalanced. I think either something happened during the transfer process for the '96 or in mastering. Possibly having to do with the compression/limiting added. So I feel this imbalance in Electric Funeral is coincidental to the similar imbalance on the Japanese releases, given that Iron Man is not imbalanced on those releases and somehow ended up so on the '96/'09. I think it's just part of the severely screwy '96 mastering which has a number of other issues.

Btw, when I say Iron Man dropouts, sometimes they aren't very audible but I can see them and barely hear them. Only the '86 CDs have them obviously audible but they are there on the Replica 70s, '96/'09 and HDtracks/2016.

 

I don't like the Intercord versions of those as well. I haven't listened to them in quite a while.

 

To try and understand you correctly, a question: do you mean the weird tremolo effect on the opening guitar bends, or dropouts during the song proper?