Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by blacksabbathrainbow, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. sathvyre

    sathvyre formerly known as ABBAmaniac

    Location:
    Europe
    It's not only a volume issue on "Rat Salad", but the lower channel lacks clarity and treble...sounds like a dirty tape head to me....maybe it is on the original mix tape that way ???
     
  2. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    It does seem to be a problem on the original mix tape. Both the quad mixes and rough mixes do not have this issue but every release of the original stereo mix does. The '12 fixes the clarity issue by EQing it but then the hiss is much louder in that channel because of the brightening. It's a shame the rough mix lacks overdubs and the quad mix has the gimmicky panning. Otherwise I'd just not listen to the original stereo mix anymore.
     
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  3. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Like you, I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

    It just so happens that these days I'm listening to every copy I have of these titles and actually listening for differences and reasons why I may have liked some more than others through the years, and my memory is very clear as of the time of writing this post that the 33PD and the CLACD for Paranoid just couldn't be any more different.


    Annnnnnd.... it would be audible.
     
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  4. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    I'm inclined to agree. I'd say all the Paranoid CDs I've reviewed recently have Rat Salad sounding weaker than the tracks it is sandwiched between.

    Another curious thing that happens pretty much across the board is how Fairies Wear Boots seems to brighten up just a little at the time of the first set of drum breaks (around the 00:38 mark). Likely another original tape flaw.
     
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  5. Well, at least one person thinks it is. Probably to the chosen people only! ;-)
     
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  6. Happy holidays! Thanks for being here, it's a pleasure to discuss masterings and music with you people!
     
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  7. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    And a merry holiday season to you too. This board is a better place with you in it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. rocnred

    rocnred Southwest Desert Freak-a-zoid

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I wanted to thank you for these amazing Black Sabbath forum posts. Between you, @rnranimal, @rjstauber, and the countless others who have posted so much information; my New Years Eve was spent pulling out Black Sabbath, Paranoid, MOR, and Sabotage off the CD rack and cranking it up. All CD’s were purchased when they were first released back in the 80’s. They sound pretty good. I had all the vinyl up to Never Say Die purchased back in the 70’s, but they have since disappeared. (long horrible story that my therapist says I will never get over). I decided to purchase Paranoid again and came here looking for the perfect vinyl version to get. I found a great one thanks to all of you. I believe that Sabotage and MOR are next on my list. I am seriously thinking of an SHM-SACD version for those, but vinyl is always in the mix. Sounds like more research on my part.

    I saw the Never Say Die tour when I was a teen. No self-respecting rocker teen did not have the full catalog of Black Sabbath growing up in the 70’s. I wish I could tell you how all the new versions stack up against the originals but it was the 70’s, I was a teen, and loved Black Sabbath. What I do remember is they were great and they shaped my life. I had multiple copies of each; some on 8-track, some on reel to reel, some on cassette, but all on vinyl.

    All I know is that when I play early Black Sabbath...I am 17 again. Thank you all again. Your knowledge and perseverance is not going unnoticed. Happy New Year!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    Great thread Linda

    I do have a few questions which I hope you will answer for me!!!!
    You actually like the 2012/16 SBS 2nd to the SACD?
    "For Evil Woman, my favorite is the 1989 Japan 23PD-133" aren't these the same masterings as the USA original WB cd's?
    From what I gather the WB original cd for TE is actually darker sounding than the vinyl correct?
    "The 2010 Pearce Sanctuary Deluxe 2xCD comes with live tracks from the Heaven and Hell tour and a mono edit of Evil Woman as bonus material."
    I think you meant Lady Evil?

    Live at Last/Past Lives


    Many releases of Live at Last actually sound horrible. I am aware of 4 that don't: my favorite soundwise is the 1996 Castle, its main flaw being the omittance of Ozzy's "Will you welcome Black Sabbath" intro at the beginning. The 1996 Castle has some compression added vs. the 1986 Castle, but in this case, it actually improves the recording a bit IMO. 2nd best is the 1986 Castle (which does include said intro). 3rd (surprise!) is the Creative Sounds 6001 with "CSL-NEMS 6001" on the red-printed disc and "13S 10749 AZ" matrix. 4th is another Creative Sounds CD: 6001-2, with "CSL-NEMS 449800-2" on the black-printed disc and "PILZ CD 449800-2 [ K 30550 B ]" matrix.

    What is the difference between the 2 Creative Sounds discs?


    'Sabotage: '86 Castle but substitute Creative Sounds versions for SotU & Megalomania; also fix the Writ, left channel: 6:18 - 6:48" Kevin5Brown I believe first pointed this out to us Forum Members?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  10. animaux

    animaux Bababooey!

    Location:
    Wisconsin

    "17 again"! Agreed 100%. It's why Sabbath never grows old for me.
     
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  11. Why don't you follow your own advice? Allow me to quote yourself from Roland's thread:
    (And yes, the 2010 Pearce Sanctuary Deluxe 2xCD contains a mono edit of Lady Evil, not Evil Woman.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  12. Nice post and pic! Thank you!

    :)
     
  13. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    I did follow my own advice!!!
    I still had a few questions though
    Was hoping you would be a bit more mature and answer them that’s all
     
  14. Given some of your posts on this forum, including the one I quoted above where you explicitly suggested that a thorough discussion of digital Sabbath releases was a waste of time, I am not sure you are qualified to judge other people's maturity. Nonetheless, I will answer your questions (this time) in order to prevent them from causing confusion. But I warn you: this is NOT an invitation for you to derail this thread with misleading questions and claims as you have done to other Sabbath threads in the past.

    I haven't checked if said Japan CD and said US CD share the same mastering, but it doesn't really matter for the issue at hand, because unlike the Japan CD, the US CD does simply not include Evil Woman.

    I already answered this question in the post linked in my first post above:
    Roland's favorite CD versions of Black Sabbath albums (part2)

    I don't remember, but it is irrelevant to me anyway, because neither of them sounds as good as the 1986 and 1996 Castle CDs. As I was trying to say in my first post above, sorting out which release of an albums ranks 3rd and which one is 4th isn't a priority for me me. My main concern is which one or two releases are the best.
     
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  15. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    So you are not a fan of the 2009 Remaster for this album?
    I actually thought it sound similar to the Castle 1996 myself.
     
  16. damnit

    damnit Great Cd Mastering Only Please

    Location:
    usa
    That is your opinion and I have not derailed any threads as you are trying to claim
    You missed this question too
    You actually like the 2012/16 SBS 2nd to the SACD?
    Oh and BTW thanks for your response!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  17. The Hud

    The Hud Breath of the Kingdom, Tears of the Wild

    Crap! I didn't even know there was a Japanese bonus track on Cross Purposes! They need to work on the Deluxe Martin Sabbath albums and put the extra tracks on them.
     
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  18. ricks

    ricks Senior Member

    Location:
    127.0.0.1:443
    Anthrax you are 100% correct, the claim they are the same is wrong.

    The 33PD tracks from Paranoid are different transfers thus different masterings from the CLACD and NELCD. They do not stay in digital sync the EQ is different and peak levels do not match. The same goes for the S/T tracks on the 33PD compared the NELCD and CLACD.
     
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  19. Thanks for clarifying.

    Let me add that the Paranoid portions are not just different transfers, but transfers from different tapes as well. It is particularly obvious listening to Iron Man since the Castle has the same drop-outs that are e.g. on the Intercord and (less notable) the 1996 Castle remaster; the 33PD has not. The 33PD has obvious similarities to the TECP and the SACD, so it is from a Japanese tape as opposed to the European (likely UK) tape that the Castles are from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  20. Music_dude

    Music_dude Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I was just listening to the SACD’s of the first five Black Sabbath albums, which are great to have both as a novelty and a reference point. I found them a bit brighter than what I’m used to listening to, but not by much. This is understandable as they are flat transfers from the master tapes without the proper eq and mastering. Some have stated that the SACD of the s/t sounds very similar to the UK first press, so that was definitely interesting to hear. I usually listen to the 86’ Castle or the 2009 so there was a noticeable difference in tone. Same goes for Volume 4... definitely brighter than the 2009, for sure - and I suspect a lot brighter than the original WB greenie LP, as I remember Tim telling me that the original US LP had almost too much bass. No doubt this was the result of eq moves made by the engineer at the time. I’m actually a fan of the darker sounding CDs /LP’s as I feel it’s more in line with Sabbath’s signature sound. I’m just wondering if there’s a flat transfer of Wicked World kicking around somewhere, or if the 2016 is the best source we’re going to get...
     
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  21. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    No known flat transfer of Wicked World around but it's somewhat possible the original WB CD was flat.
     
  22. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    How I wish the Japanese got around to SHM-SACD'ing Sabotage along with the first five.
     
  23. ...and maybe the 2014 HDtracks too? As you pointed out a while ago, the original WB CD and the 2014 HDtracks Wicked World versions both have very sharp stereo separation, while the 2016 WB/Rhino CD and 2016/2017 The Ultimate Collection have the stereo separation reduced (a bit, but notably).

    Anyway, the important thing is the sound, flat transfer or not. Each of these 4 versions of WW is a Billion times better than all the crappy European releases.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  24. mike's beard

    mike's beard Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I wondered if anybody else found the Dio era 2009 remasters to rather quiet?
     
  25. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Yeah, there's always a possibility with the HDtracks as well given that it wasn't mastered as part of the '12 album masterings. It's possible they just grabbed the tape and transferred it. However, I recall it sounding even brighter than the WB CD and I wonder if it had some EQ to try and match the very bright EQ of the album masterings.
     

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