Dismiss Notice
We are making some updates and reconfigurations to our server. Apologies for any downtime or slow forum loading now or within the next week or so. Thanks!

Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by blacksabbathrainbow, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. No need to apologize, and I don't mind talking off-topic as long as we're still talking Sabbath. And I am not worried about 2 or 3 posts talking Priest or Ozzy solo in between either as long as things get back on track quickly. I just would prefer longer discussions of non-Sabbath topics to take place elsewhere.

    Too bad Glenn's voice was in such bad shape when he sang Ozzy's Sabbath songs live in 1986, it would have been interesting to hear how that sounded on a better day. Anyway, chances are he was right, Glenn singing Ozzy is probably always going to sound a bit weird. Sure, feel free to PM me.
     
  2. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    A great singer does not have to have a great voice! Ozzy had a good and unique voice with a great stage performance in the 70’s.

    Ian Gillan’s or Dio’s vocal ranges were light years better, but their stage performances between average and good.
     
  3. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    :righton: I look forward to that, I don’t need anything too in-depth. Once you don’t recoil in horror after taking a listen then I’ll most probably keep them. (I know ‘Dissidence’ at one time rated the TECP Vol 4, so it must have some merit).
     
    hutchguv likes this.
  4. Greenalishi

    Greenalishi Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Ozzy is a stylist. He has a unique voice. An individual style. I prefer this type of singer. Willie Nelson. Just puts everything into it. So cool. The descriptions I have used seem to be taken the wrong way. I’ll refrain from anything which may be seen as critical. Although to me unschooled off key screamer is a complement. That’s someone I wanna hear. Neil Young the same. But I dig it
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
    hutchguv likes this.
  5. Nobody wants you to refrain from being critical. That wasn't my point, anyway, at all. Whether you like Ozzy's voice more or less than I do doesn't bother me at all. I merely disagreed with part of the descriptive content of your statement: I don't think that Ozzy "screams" a lot, so I don't feel he's adequately described as a "screamer". (Nor is Neil Young.) And on the 1970ies studio albums, he doesn't sing a lot out of key either. As far as I can hear, anyway.
     
    hutchguv and Greenalishi like this.
  6. Greenalishi

    Greenalishi Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    That’s just how I see him. Think he’s great. Prefer his style to that American Idol, Broadway pitch perfect cookie cutter singers. I wanna hear the blood. La Niña De Los Peines soul. Edith Piaf, Billy Holiday. Ozzy s in there to me.
     
    hutchguv likes this.
  7. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Played the old WB Sabotage today. I wouldn't say it's my favorite but better sounding than I'd remembered.
     
    hutchguv and Greenalishi like this.
  8. Which one is your favorite?
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  9. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I wouldn't say I have a clear favorite yet, but I think the 2009 and the 2016 are both better than the WB, for my tastes anyway. And yeah, the EQ on those 2 are pretty different from each other. Something about the WB doesn't sound right to me for some reason...not sure why. I'll have to revisit the other versions soon. I played the WB today mainly because it was out and sitting next to some other discs I was playing today.
     
    hutchguv and blacksabbathrainbow like this.
  10. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    From what I’ve read on here it sounds very similar to the original WB and NEMS vinyl.
     
    hutchguv and blacksabbathrainbow like this.
  11. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    That may be, but vinyl doesn't necessarily indicate any source of truth. The only source of truth is the tapes, which probably no one on this thread has heard.
     
    hutchguv and Gus Tomato like this.
  12. That's interesting because the 2009 and the 2016 are, for me, pretty much on different sides of the spectrum of sound, at least EQ-wise: the 2009 is unusually dark-sounding, the 2016 is unusually bright-sounding. EQ is not everything though, of course; maybe what you're hearing in these two is higher fidelity and/or transparency due to their likely use of the master tapes for these two releases. I admit I don't hear that though: I don't notice any lack of fidelity or transparency in the original WB CD vs. the 2009 or the 2016 CD. My general tendency listening to the original WB CD on its own is to find it great but a bit too bright-sounding for my taste. In that respect, the 2016 CD is clearly worse though. If I hadn't included the 1986 Castle CD and the needle drops from the original UK and US vinyl in my comparisons, things would probably end there and I would simply have to pick the dark-sounding 2009 CD even though it sounds a tad compressed. Yet the WB is, as @Gus Tomato mentioned, very close to the original vinyl, and while you are right to point out that vinyl doesn't necessarily tell us how the master tapes sound, having no access to the master tapes it does offer the best guess we have as to what kind of sound was intended at the time. After listening to the needle drops, the 2009 CD sounded a bit too dark to me. Side 1 of the 1986 Castle CD suffers from tape damage, but side 2 sounds great and just a little bit easier on my ears than the original Castle, which is why I currently prefer a hybrid for this album: original WB side 1 + 1986 Castle (properly de-emphasized) side 2.
     
    hutchguv and Gus Tomato like this.
  13. Gus Tomato

    Gus Tomato Stop dreamin’ and start drivin’ Stevie!

    Location:
    Cork
    Original WB Sabotage is next on my shopping list and I cannot wait to get a hold of it, my absolute favourite album of all time!
    (I’m gonna have to figure out a way to graft ‘Blow On A Jug’ onto the end of ‘The Writ’ for my iTunes so it can be definitive then - I’m sure I’ll find a way).
     
    hutchguv and Greenalishi like this.
  14. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Yeah, I did mention the EQ is pretty different between those two. More than likely those two, as well as the original WB, could be re-EQ'd to sound better. If any forum member has attempted it, I'd be interested in hearing it.

    My personal opinion on the '86 Castle CDs is that they sound like mud. I'm glad I got to hear them though, because it saved me a lot of money. To be fair it's been awhile since I've revisited them. RE: needledrops, the problem is always that you are hearing the dropper's gear as much as you are hearing the record.

    When a mastering engineer cuts a lacquer for vinyl (I'm sure you know this) they apply their own EQ and mastering moves. Unless we have access to the cutting instructions, we don't really know what exactly was done.
     
    hutchguv likes this.
  15. I am not aware of any such attempts for this album. Based on experiences with other albums, I am now very skeptical about the possibility of improving on a remaster by remastering it another time. More often than not, the result doesn't sound natural. However, I would love to be proven wrong.

    Not all 1986 Castle CDs sound the same. I do agree some of them have a muddy quality, but IMO Sabotage side 2 and SBS don't sound muddy at all. However, for SBS I prefer the SACD.

    I am fully aware of that. I try to compensate for it as much as possible by including multiple needle drops of the same pressing ripped by different people, preferably without additional mastering moves applied. And I seem to remember that other forum members who have the original Sabotage LPs confirmed that the WB CD is the closest.

    I know that. Still, those four Sabbath Japan SHM-SACDs that contain flat transfers from the UK master tapes (s/t, MOR, Vol4, SBS) mostly sound surprisingly close to the original UK LPs, so it seems that at least for these four albums, the engineers didn't feel like introducing big changes.

    It doesn't matter though: using needle drops of original LPs as orientation is something I do, but it's obviously not a law everyone (or anyone) has to follow. And there are albums where I am simply unhappy with the original vinyl, in which case I prefer a CD to sound different of course. If there were a CD release for Sabotage that sounded fully dynamic, and EQ-wise "in the middle" between the 2009 Sanctuary and the original WB, I would gladly take that. Regrettably there isn't.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
    hutchguv and Gus Tomato like this.
  16. Jmetamatic

    Jmetamatic This is the end of our oxygen supply.

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Linda, do you actually have time to listen to anything else but Black Sabbath?
    Just asking for a friend.
     
    hutchguv likes this.
  17. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    To be clear, I wasn't talking about a full remaster with added compression, more like some conservative re-EQing. I don't have the skillset to do this in any kind of semi-professional way, but I have heard instances where some folks were successful doing it.

    Sure, I'll take your word for it. I was so disappointed with the sound of the 86 Castles that I haven't bothered to spend much time with them since first hearing them. I also can't be bothered to listen to half of one CD, then half of another, in most cases. I agree the SBS SACD sounds excellent.

    If that works for you personally, by all means, I'm not going to argue with what you should and shouldn't do. I just find needledrops to be a waste of time for me personally, the majority of the time. Exceptions would be pure curiosity, alternative mixes such as mono mixes that haven't been issued on CD, lost master tapes, etc.

    Yep, agreed.
     
    hutchguv and blacksabbathrainbow like this.
  18. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Well, luckily that disc is still pretty cheap and easy to find. If you have to get a copy shipped across the ocean that will add to the overall cost though.
     
  19. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    There's something else besides Black Sabbath?
     
  20. Jmetamatic

    Jmetamatic This is the end of our oxygen supply.

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Yeah, Iommi and GZR.
     
    hutchguv and blacksabbathrainbow like this.
  21. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, a lot.
     
    hutchguv likes this.
  22. Jmetamatic

    Jmetamatic This is the end of our oxygen supply.

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Sarcasm, not your strong point, eh?
     
    hutchguv likes this.
  23. Claus

    Claus Senior Member

    Location:
    Germany
    Nope!
     
    hutchguv and GregM like this.
  24. I sometimes feel that I don't have enough time to actually listen to Sabbath because I am to busy analyzing and discussing them. :) Anyway, recently I have listened to Leonard Cohen, Tori Amos and Savatage quite a lot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  25. Jmetamatic

    Jmetamatic This is the end of our oxygen supply.

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Laughing Lennie always cheers me up. The 24 bit remasters are a joy.
     
    hutchguv and blacksabbathrainbow like this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine