Lindsey Buckingham Sues Fleetwood Mac Over Dismissal from Band

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by IHeartRecordsAz, Oct 11, 2018.

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  1. GoodKitty

    GoodKitty FloydM

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  2. rushed again

    rushed again Forum Resident

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  3. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

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  4. reverendjim

    reverendjim Forum Resident

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    new york, ny, usa
    Even as a Buckingham sympathizer, I thought the casual line about how "hey, maybe Nicks is bitter because she's childless and alone and I have a beautiful family" was a pretty nasty shot. Cringed when I heard that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  5. Artietodd

    Artietodd Forum Resident

    +1
     
  6. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

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    I think he also does it because it's one of the few legitimate chart hits he's had, and he kind of has to. He of course wrote some of FM's most-loved songs by fans, but really only "GYOW," "Tusk," and "Big Love" were genuine hits. Although I'd really like to see him work up a full band arrangement, since FM never played it live on the Tango tour, obviously. I thought it was weird the one time I saw FM and they did a full band "Go Insane" but left Lindsey to still do "Big Love" solo. It's such an odd studio creation that I've always wondered what would sound like live with a full band.
     
  7. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

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    Toronto, ON, CA
    I enjoy the original recording a lot but it's a studio creation through and through. I can't see it having anyway near as much impact as the live version, even though some of us are tired of it.
     
  8. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

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    I just want to know what it would sound like. I'm beyond bored with Lindsey's solo rendition. It's an absolute feat of virtuosity, but like, we've all seen/heard it 1,000 times. And i think about The Dance version of "Everywhere," not remarkably different from the studio cut, but just comes to life like a completely different song when actually played live and not created on mid-80's digital technology. I just think it'd be cool, and something different.
     
  9. GoodKitty

    GoodKitty FloydM

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    Pretty sure Lindsey's tour dates for this year just wrapped up in Bethlehem PA. last night .... So now does he head home to L.A. as Fleetwood Mac arrive to do their three nights at the Forum ? or perhaps go somewhere else till it all blows over ?
    I always wonder if he can help himself from taking a peek on youtube to see what they've been doing....it's too easy to look.
     
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  10. John Rhett Thomas

    John Rhett Thomas Forum Resident

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    I agree. He seemed to want to take a shot. But what he's said I've heard echoed elsewhere, though I can't place where.
     
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  11. reverendjim

    reverendjim Forum Resident

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    Just to be clear, that was a paraphrase, but I think it captures the essence of what he kind of just tossed out there. Here's the actual quote from the interview in case I'm not being fair: "I think, you know, sometimes she might find it difficult that I was lucky enough to find my soulmate late in life and got married and had my first child when I was 48 and have three beautiful children. And that was something she never did. She basically is living her professional life. And so maybe…I don’t know if that plays into it or not. I honestly don’t know."
     
  12. rushed again

    rushed again Forum Resident

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    Sorry. I thought it was a quote. I'll delete my post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  13. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

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    While that remark will ensure that Stevie will never be in the same room with him unless she dies, I don't think it's as nasty as the paraphrase. It's kind of like, I found happiness with a spouse and family, maybe she's missing a family instead of the implication of 'she's old and resents my family life'
     
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  14. Artietodd

    Artietodd Forum Resident

    It's an uncalled for remark that made me cringe as well. And I'm quite pro-Buckingham. Why even bring it up?

    So petty and vindictive. He's essentially saying (and this is a giant paraphrase) there was no real reason for her to want him out, it must be because she's jealous of his life and because she is childless. Sounds like he knows a lot from personal conversations with her about her life and her dreams (pun intended) and desires. And he used this occasion to hit back at her, way below the belt. "I don't know if that plays into it or not"??? Really? This was an ongoing, personal/professional disagreement with a rich history. That comment is purely personal.
     
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  15. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

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    good point
     
  16. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Senior Member

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    Sheboygan, WI
    I wonder when they stop being 'Fleetwood Mac'. Without John? Without Christine? Without Mick and one of the others? Unless they make a new album with songs by Neil and/or Mike that seep into the public consciousness, I don't think this current incarnation has a purpose beyond playing newly arranged oldies. Too bad, because they really have more than potential - actual ability and talent. In fact, new material would help everyone move on.
     
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  17. Squealy

    Squealy Forum Hall Of Fame

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    I also wonder what Stevie thought about Christine telling Lindsey that she thinks Stevie “deep down” wants him to come back. (In an email... I also thought, she couldn’t have picked up the phone to talk to Lindsey?)
     
  18. Skokiaan

    Skokiaan Forum Resident

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    New Jersey
    I saw Lindsey's show last night in Bethlehem. He was very humble, and thanked everybody for being there for "a new beginning." He said new solo tour dates should start in April 2019. It really sounds like he's concentrating on his solo work.

    Fantastic show, BTW. I was surprised by how many people really knew is solo catalog. Most of the audience (or at least the most vocal part) were clearly not there just to hear Fleetwood Mac songs (he played five). He got well deserved standing ovations for several of his solo songs. The people in one section down front danced to everything.
     
  19. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    Fair enough but, when you've been fired, it's pretty hard to resist a dig or two. I thought he was surprisingly balanced.
     
  20. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

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    Toronto, ON, CA
    This may be the best thing possible for his career. Less people going to see him wishing they were seeing FM.
     
  21. GoodKitty

    GoodKitty FloydM

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  22. IHeartRecordsAz

    IHeartRecordsAz Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
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    So Stereogum just released an interview they did with Lindsey to promote his Solo Anthology album. You can read the whole thing here, which is a real interesting look at the creation of some of his best tracks and worth the read (Lindsey Buckingham Reveals Stories Behind His Solo Songs And Whether He’ll Ever Rejoin Fleetwood Mac ). But I've distilled all of the bits that talk about Fleetwood Mac and their split below:

    IN REGARDS TO THE TANGO IN THE NIGHT ERA OF FLEETWOOD MAC:

    STEREOGUM:
    Out Of The Cradle is a masterpiece and it came eight years after your previous solo album.

    BUCKINGHAM:
    The time lag in some ways was the subject of a repeating theme that would happen when I wanted to maybe make a quicker transition into a next solo project, but Fleetwood Mac would always say, “Well, we gotta do this.” After Go Insane, which I didn’t tour, there was Mirage, and there was a tour behind Mirage. Then they wanted to go in and do even another album. During that time I was preparing for another solo album but again had to put it aside, put it on the shelf.

    STEREOGUM: It’s wild you never played solo shows before Out Of The Cradle.

    BUCKINGHAM: It is. There may have been a certain reticence to tour based on some element of thinking that what I was doing solo-wise was more marginal, but I think mainly that it was more prevented by the logistics of the big machine.

    Of course, Tango In The Night was so dysfunctional. I mean, it’s actually something I’m so proud of now when I listen back to how well that album turned out, but it was such a dysfunctional situation that that caused me to actually take leave of the band at that time. I couldn’t conceive of going out on the road, which is usually way crazier than being in the studio.

    If you reel out the kind of behavior that could be considered a cliché from the ’70s to a real extreme with Mick and Stevie in particular, it was crazy. I think what happened was I left, and I let the dust settle for a while. Then I started reexamining the work that I had done and thought I needed to do some more work, especially in the context of what had happened with Fleetwood Mac at that time. Out Of The Cradle in retrospect was a little overdue in terms of the time [since] Go Insane...

    ...The other side of that is do I want to be an artist; do I want to call my own shots; do I want to engage in what is vital or seemingly vital, what seems important to me in that moment and not worry about what the outcome is on a commercial level. That sensibility — which began on Tusk — was very starkly pitted against the other four members of Fleetwood Mac, who really didn’t want that.

    They did love Tusk when it came out, but when it became clear that it wasn’t going to sell 16 million albums, then Mick comes to me and says, “Well, we’re not doing that again.” So, okay, well, that leaves me a little bit treading water because what, am I going to turn around and swim back to the shallow end?

    STEREOGUM: It’s not on the anthology, but “Wrong” is also a cool track from that album. It was a not-so-thinly-veiled dig at Mick, inspired by his 1991 memoir My Life And Adventures In Fleetwood Mac.

    BUCKINGHAM: Totally inspired by Mick’s book. Well, Mick was a person who was always trying to self-promote, was always trying to do things that would bring in some income. But would also bring in perhaps what I would deem as the wrong kind of visibility for himself — clothing lines, being a judge on Puttin’ On The Hits. I’m going through a list in the song. I didn’t have a lot of respect. I mean, I understood that it was out of a certain neediness, but at the same time as much as I loved Mick and I still love Mick [despite] whatever weaknesses or lack of perspectives he has shown in the last year, I couldn’t love that part of him. Yeah, he came out with his book, and it was just kind of a real trashy thing. There’s nothing wrong with a book. I’ll probably do a book, but he doesn’t have a mechanism for self-editing in that way or perhaps discerning where the line is.

    ------------

    IN REGARDS TO HOW THE REST OF THE BAND CONVINCED LINDSEY TO COME BACK INTO THE FOLD

    STEREOGUM:
    Your next solo album could’ve been culled from a collection that ended up leaking in 2001 which fans called Gift Of Screws, years before your actual Gift Of Screws album. Could you talk about how that got shelved?

    BUCKINGHAM: “Gift Of Screws” is on a group of songs that was cut with Mick and Rob Cavallo in Hollywood that was meant to be a follow-up [to Out Of The Cradle].

    STEREOGUM: Was it presented to Reprise as a finished album?

    BUCKINGHAM: No. It was a bunch of songs we had, but what happened at the end of that, and I’m not so sure Rob Cavallo, who was working at Warner’s at that time, wasn’t in on this … I said, “Rob, would you like to go in the studio for like a month and cut some tracks, and maybe we’ll get Mick to come in and play.” Mick came in. John [McVie] came in. I think at some point because I’d left the band, and of course in the interim Fleetwood Mac had gotten Billy Burnette and Rick Vito. Then Stevie, after that one album, Behind The Mask, had left. Here you’ve got Christine and Mick, and then they got Dave Mason. It was just kind of a mess, kind of like it is right now. I even know what to call Fleetwood Mac right now, a cover band. Certainly not honoring the legacy the way it should be, and that’s the only thing that bothers me about what’s going on right now.

    Anyway, I think they had gotten to this point where they realized they wanted to try to get me back. So near the end of these sessions, there was all of this intrigue going on that ended up in a dinner over at Christine’s house. By this time I was with the woman who would later become my wife, Kristen, who I had met during those sessions, had come down to photograph. The two of us went over to Christine’s, and it was like this intervention where they all stood around me in a circle and said, “You gotta come back. You gotta come back.” I said, “Okay.”

    STEREOGUM: This was before The Dance.

    BUCKINGHAM: Would’ve been like ’97, maybe, ’96. The idea was to do a live show that would get filmed and put out an album of that show, which was The Dance, with the five of us. But yes, “Gift of Screws” was a song that had been cut before that, as was “Down On Rodeo,” “Someone’s Gotta Change Your Mind,” “The Right Place To Fade” …

    We cut all this stuff with Mick, and it all got shelved. Then of course what happens after The Dance, then they want to go in and make a studio album.

    STEREOGUM: So some ended up on Say You Will, your first album with Fleetwood Mac in 16 years.

    BUCKINGHAM: Yes. “Bleed To Love Her” ended up on Say You Will, “Murrow Turning Over In His Grave,” “Come” … but there were still all these other ones. I wanted to make a double album, but they wouldn’t do it. Then I did Under The Skin and Gift Of Screws back to back.

    ------------

    IN REGARDS TO THE BUCKINGHAM MCVIE ALBUM AND HIS FIRING FROM FLEETWOOD MAC

    STEREOGUM: Seeds We Sow is your most recent solo album aside from last year’s collaborative LP with Christine, and the title track is included on the anthology. How’d you end up deciding to self-release that one?

    BUCKINGHAM: I don’t know that it really made much difference because Warner Brothers, by the time we got to Under The Skin, they weren’t putting money in for videos or anything. Again, you don’t expect to reach … I mean, back during Go Insane or Law And Order, maybe I’d sell 300,000. By today’s standards, you’d sell a tenth of that.

    STEREOGUM: You especially can’t measure success by sales numbers these days.

    BUCKINGHAM: I don’t really have a metric that I can measure in that way. I mean, maybe when I come out with this next year it’ll be a little easier to tell because with someone like Irving Azoff managing you, who only follows the money. In all the time he managed me [he] only came to one solo show, at which point the only thing he said after the show was, “The balcony wasn’t full.”

    There is a quote from Jim Jarmusch saying, “We got to get this scene right because dozens of people are going to see this movie.” It’s been attributed to him. Whether he actually said it, I don’t know, but that’s the way you got to think about it.

    STEREOGUM: You have two “new” songs on this, previously unreleased.

    BUCKINGHAM: Yeah. They made me do that.

    STEREOGUM: Were those earmarked for another project? You mentioned you’ll likely have another solo album next year.

    BUCKINGHAM: I did this thing with Christine last year, which was actually a really nice album. We had a ball taking it out on the road. Initially, the idea was that maybe we do a Fleetwood Mac album. She was still not in the band, but Mick and John and I had gone in with Mitchell Froom and cut some songs. So a few of the things of mine were already there, and of course when we got to that point and tried to engage Stevie in that idea, she didn’t want to do it.

    STEREOGUM: Didn’t want to do an album?

    BUCKINGHAM: No. And I’m the one who gets fired, right?*

    STEREOGUM: I read you haven’t spoken to any of them since then.

    BUCKINGHAM: I haven’t spoken to any of them. Once we signed some papers a few weeks ago, I did hear from Christine in an email, as I expected to. I know Mick would probably like to, but I think he’s too embarrassed and just a little too weak-willed to do it. I won’t hear from Stevie because it was all her trip anyway. Again, I just have to forgive them because it’s really just Stevie being so needy for a certain kind of attention and maybe not wanting to compete with the vitality that I have.

    STEREOGUM: Do you think you’ll ever end up back with the band?

    BUCKINGHAM: Look, it’s Fleetwood Mac, anything’s possible. Maybe they’ll get it out of their system. If they ask me to come back, would I? Sure, because to me I think the lack of a proper farewell tour, if that’s what we’re doing, that doesn’t undercut, like I say, the legacy that we have so carefully built as the five of us, which they’re not doing right now. I don’t know what they’re doing. It’s a cover band kind of deal, and Stevie may be enjoying that, and that’s fine. If she is happy doing that, there is no one outcome that I think is going to be okay. The way I look at it is it’s giving me an opportunity to do some things in a more rapid-fire way with some new people who actually care about what I’m doing and not just about getting the money from Fleetwood Mac. Look, I mean it does make me question who these people are, but again, to look at it compassionately, I think it’s all coming from a lack of perspective and to some degree a certain weakness on their parts. I can’t stop loving them because of that.

    ------------

    *I definitely can understand Lindsey's feelings here, but I also find it funny because he answered his own question earlier in the interview as to why he got fired over her: because Azoff (and to some extension, the band) care about what will bring in the money. And for FM in 2018, that's going to be through touring, not releasing another album.
     
  23. zebop

    zebop Well Known Stranger

    Totally agree. I remain annoyed and attracted to Stevie Nicks, ha.
     
  24. Witchy Woman

    Witchy Woman Forum Resident

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  25. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Right, but according to him he agreed to the tour after being turned down on his postponement request.
     
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