Line Magnetic LM-88IA Integrated Vacuum Tube Amplifier

Hello All

I am starting a new thread to share my experiences with this LM amp. I had taken advice from a lot of wise men of this forum and it surely helped me bag my first tube amp.

For those looking at specs and other details of this amp, please hit the link below.

https://www.line-magnetic.eu/en/products-line-magnetic-en/integrated-tube-amplifier-line-magnetic-en/lm-88ia-amplificateur-intégré-push-pull-kt88-2x42w-detail

This is a continuation of my journey post the knowledge that I have gained from the below thread. If you are first time Tube Amp buyer, then I highly recommend that you follow the below thread. There are some very helpful people out there.

Help with first integ. amp - Primaluna v. Rogue v. Line Magnetic v. McIntosh v. Naim

So my amp was delivered in all its shining piano black glory ( it is also a dust magnet) last week. The dealer personally delivered the amp and he gave me a 15 min dos and donts.

This tube amp has 0, 4, 8 and 16 ohm. I was educated ( in the above post) that the black speaker wire goes into the 0 ohm (ground) tap and then the red wire goes into a tap of your choice. I put into the 4 ohm tap because my speaker Elac Adante AF 61 was rated for 6 ohms. I am yet to experiment with other taps.

The sound out of the box was not what I had in mind. I was not very concerned either because in the few years that I have had a decent system, I knew that things need to settle down. The dealer told me that he had about 5 hours of running he did on the amp since he had made some upgrades as well. He told me that it would take 50 hours for things to settle down. The first track I played right after the 30 second blinker stopped was from Tidal and it was Down in the Hole by John Cambell and while the vocals felt like they were coming from my house, it was very raw. This was right after the amp was turned on. My wife who has a sensitive ear told me that it was very raw and she described it like the singer was practising instead of performing. The bass was also wobbly. Within an hour, I felt that the sound was improving in the mid range. The highs were still quite sharp in some tracks but the signature of the trebble was more crisp than bright. I never felt that this could be a bright amp and I was right. I played all sorts of tracks. I tried some infected mushroom and I dont think this amp had any issues with mid bass. One of the things that I noticed was on the strings. The strings for the lack of a better word felt like they were played in my house. The decay was longer..not sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing but to my ears it was nice.

After about 3 hours of listening, it was quite late in the night and I had the entire space for myself and I tried some Sinatra and it was very nice. I have no doubts that the amp will shine in the mid range, I need to find out how they settle down in the upper and lower registers.

if any of you have any tips or suggestions that can help with my progression, please do share. I will share my findings as I discover this amp.

 

Took a quick look at your speakers. Looks like they are a 87db load with a 6 ohm nominal impedance. Elac suggests a minimum of 50 watts.

To be totally honest, some of the harshness in the top end may be coming from the speaker load being a bit too much for the amp. (especially if you are running it in Triode mode)

Are you listening at higher volumes? And are you running the amp in triode or ultra linear?


Hopefully more break in hours will settle it down some. As a LM dealer, I can tell you that I typically do not find the LM-88 as very bright or forward in sound.

 

Thanks @GoldprintAudio

What I meant was , the vocals were forward like as if the singer is in your house. I meant this in a good way.

It certainly is not bright. I had taken an Elac UB5 which is 85DB @ 4 ohm for the audition in a much bigger room and it was fine. Coming from a 300 watt solid state peachtree audio amp, I am certain that the watts rating on the LM88IA is not the same as a solid state amp. I do not know how tube amps count watts but I feel there is enough and more juice on tap. So I do not think the amp has any issues driving these. The loudest I have played it till now is 930 o clock and it gets very loud. I usually play it between 8 and 9 assuming 7 is like the starting point. There is a lot more left to turn on the knob (about 75%) I am running it in the fixed bias mode. I seemed to like the sound in the fixed mode better than the cathode biased mode but ive not really got to a point of doing a critical comparison.

How do you differentiate both these modes? Is it safe to assume that more dynamic music will be better of in UL mode where as the slow ones should do well with Triode? Should I listen to Iron Maiden in UL mode but listen to Frank Sinatra in Triode? Is that a good analogy?

The following were upgraded from stock by the dealer. I am not sure what these mean

Furutec AC inlet
Vishay Resistor
Vishay Capacitors
Kiwame Resistor
Mundorf Oil Coupling Capacitors etc
Mundorf Power Capacitors

I do not use the stock power cable. I use a furute nano power cable with furutec connectors which is also brand new so they might need some run in too.

 

Good Luck with your purchase!
Read all the posts in your other thread.
Take Care

 

That doesn’t matter. If 9:30 is loud, you probably can’t get much above 10:30 before it distorts. My speakers are 86/6 as well and 11 is about the top limit, and 9 is probably the lower limit (before music loses most of its vitality). It sounds great within this range, but it is limited because it is less power overall than your speakers would prefer.

 

Hey @IanL - Thanks for the pro tip. Luckily I cant play it any louder in my room and I think the range is pretty workable for me. I bought this amp keeping in mind that I might experiment with an easier to drive speaker in the future.

 

Me too. But I do love my speakers. A big part of that is how flexible they have been. I've heard them with a number of amps now, and they manage to sound good with all of them, even the ones that are limited in their power.

 

Update at 25 Hours

The mid range has improved quite a bit. The vocals are sounding more natural and airy. The bass seems fine to my ears. I dont see them lacking compared to the solid state. Slow music sounds very good in Triode mode. I have been using Ultra linear for Rock music. when playing Dreams by Fleetwood Mac, the cymbals sounds are edgy/grainy. I noticed the same when there is a distorted electric guitar. The dealer and I have been exchanging notes and his advise is that I need to run it in for a longer time to see if this goes away. He said that more than the tubes, it is the capacitors that need to break in and according to him Mundorf capacitors take longer to settle.

I also experimented with the taps and I feel that the 8 ohm tap seems to be an easier listen. The bias on 1 tube is slightly off so Ive just ordered a screw driver that is small enough to get through the bias adjustment slot.

Input stage: 2x 6CL8A (Mullard) et 2x 12BH7 (Electro Harmonix)
Power stage: 4x KT88 (JJ)

I am not able to find much information about the 6CL8A tubes on the internet. Are these the tubes that are responsible for the sound signature? If I were to sweeten the treble, is this the one that should be rolled? I am going to probably get about 200 hours before I think about tube rolling but Ive been trying to understand what tubes do what and what happens when you roll any of them.

Thanks again.

 

Update at 50 hours:

I am happy to share that the top end grain which was annoying me seems to have gone away. I am not sure which tube was the grainy one but the burn in seems to have made it go away. I am still not listening to it critically but I get the feeling that I can extract good sound from the amp. The speaker positioning needs to be re done for sure. The bass delivery is different to that of my Peachtree Nova 300 amp. The peachtree had a better grip on bass heavy tracks. I am referring to the lows and not the mid bass. I feel the mid bass is not affected at all but the bass does feel a little slower but I would not call it as a weakness..just a different presentation.

I changed the polarity of the speakers at the speaker end and to my ears, it seemed to have improved the SQ. Not night and day but surely few things are slightly clearer. It could be a placebo but I will keep experimenting since it causes no harm. The amp has good extension in the mids and highs. Good recordings sound good. Bad recordings sound horrible. The peachtree did not extend as much so rounded highs helps with poor recordings ( lots of 70s rock on tidal is not the best of recordings). My elac Adantes are extremely revealing speakers and very unforgiving on bad recordings with this amp. I have to live with it as a wise man said "In a high fidelity setup, garbage in is garbage out".

The amp for these speakers work best when I listen to them at about 70 to 75 db. Music loses its vitality at lower volumes. The amp shines with vocals and less instruments. Strings sound great especially acoustic guitars with vocals. I feel when there is a lot of instruments, the amp is not necessarily able to hold all of it together. Noticed only on some complex symphony. This again could be due to my speaker being harder to drive in general. I am yet to do any critical listening. I will give it about 200 hours.

I am yet to try Vinyl on them yet I am waiting form my Tellurium Q Black II phono cables to reach me.

Can I also know what pre amp tubes that you recommend for rolling. From what I have read, RCA Black Plates NOS are quite popular and are in line with my preference in sound signature. I like a romantic sound with decent amount of detail. Rich/Dark/Warm are terms that work well with this speaker. Ideally should also work if I were to have a separate horn loaded speaker (think heresy/forte) down the line. I do not want to change the KT88 right now since I guess they have a shorter life and will need a change sooner than preamp tubes.

Thanks

 

IMO the amp should sound good with the tubes they come with - otherwise they should come with other tubes.

Just give it some time and use the stock tubes. I never changed the tubes on my LM amp. But I was running the 219IA SET.

The KT88 is on the bright side of the tube amp spectrum. Plus it may be having some trouble driving the Elacs. Generally the best sounding amps tend to be when operated in Triode mode - there are exceptions. Chinese amp manufacturers love giving everyone tons of features and switches and choices but I usually feel they should just stick to one thing and do it well. Make an amp UL or Triode - and dump the switch.

The speakers have a rising response curve - multiple drivers and generally not at all designed with tube amps in mind. I'd either buy a more powerful warmer sounding SS amplifier or new speakers that are a better match for the amplifier. If you are already trying to fix the amplifier with spending even more money on tubes - in a year you may be disappointed. If possible I would ask your dealer if you can try a similarly priced but more powerful SS amplifier. Most dealers carry several lines. This way the dealer still makes his money but you get an amplifier that is more appropriate.

I am a tube first guy but you have to accommodate to the speakers. OR off course sell the speakers and get new speakers that are designed for tube amps. The dealer probably sells them if they sell tube amps.

 

Just wanted to share an update on my journey.

The more I listened to the amp, I was convinced that it did a few things very well with my speakers and a few things which left me wanting for more. This is not the problem with the amp but rather it was the nature of my speaker. The pairing was restricting my choice of music and I was listening to slow/easier music. Fast rock music was not something this pair seemed to do well with. I did not want to go down the rabbit hole of trying to tube roll since it was not going to change the power demands of the speaker.

After a lot of discussion with the dealer, I have decided to move up to the LM-150 IA amplifier. I feel this is a better match for my speakers. I heard the LM-150 with ATC SM50 and I liked what I heard. I will share my updates once the new beast comes home this Friday.

For those who reading this thread, I recommend using the LM-88IA with relatively easier to drive speakers and it would do a phenomenal job.

If there are anyone who have experience with the LM-150IA please do share your feedback. @GoldprintAudio , I am guessing from your experience, this amp would drive difficult speakers.

@Richard Austen :- Thanks a lot for your wise words. I hope the LM-150IA is able to check most boxes!

 

I agree that tube amps should ship with tubes that sound good. A "problem" with Line Magnetic is they seem to ship with bargain basement psvane/shugang tubes that don't tend to sound very good, and benefit tremendously from tube rolling. Meanwhile brands like Audio Note, Leben, and Luxman all manage to ship with $10 Sovtek or JJ tubes that sound fantastic and really eliminate any need for tube rolling.

Also agree on the folly of triode/ultra-linear switches. I'm skeptical at how well this switch can actually be implemented. My Line Magnetic amp only sounded good on ultra linear mode, where as my Luxman KT-88 amp which operates solely in triode mode is absolutely sublime and wouldn't disappoint a SET aficionado.

 

And this was the weird thing about my Line Magnetic 502CA DAC - it runs in Solid State and in Tube operation and LM went to a decent amount of trouble doing this - they have two independent transformers one for the SS mode and one for Tube (Ei and Torroid)



The tube mode sounds considerably better. Now I get the appeal - when your friends come over you can demonstrate why tubes sound better than SS - but to me it adds a lot to the expense of the DAC when chances are after the first week of ownership you will put it in tube mode and never change it. Moreover, if one is buying Line Magnetic - you've already made the decision that tubes sound better. Perhaps they could have come out with a tube only design that was simpler and 40% less money. In the USA I think this DAC sold for $1,700 but maybe a tube only version for $1,000 would have sold better and managed to stay in the company line-up because it sounds good at the first price but it's a pretty competitive market.

I suppose the SS might be better in some systems or with certain music or just to give yourself a different flavor. I think I'll connect to my main system and see what happens - there are a few other speakers I wish to review and if I get those in here - it may present a different balance. I can's see a any DAC listed on their website.

 

The LM32 is the replacement for the 502. Essentially the same dac, but the chipset used is now DSD capable.

I just sold one of them last week.....and compared to where prices in the US have gone on DACS, I think the LM32 is a pretty high value in addition to sounding quite good ($2195 retail).

 

I am glad to see it is still going under a new version - I could not see it on their website but I looked it up. It seems there are a lot of new interesting LM products replacing the older ones - I may have to try and stop by Hit Audio to see what they have - the amp where the 212 tube goes up and down wins the world of tube amps! Way out of my price range - but it is awesome.

 

The new 32 sounds very similar to the 502, which is a good thing in my opinion. I think they just wanted to add the DSD function, and thus the change in models.

 

Man reading the opening post - my experience hearing my first completed mono-block (not Line Magnetic) - was WOW - I was listening to Dire Straits and really couldn't believe it. I hope yours gets better.

 

So here is part two of my LM journey. After a 3 month wait, The amp was finally delivered by Robert and immediately it made a big visual splash. There is something about the big tubes and those Vu Meters. A lot like the red sox and their pin stripes! Quickly fired the bad boy and there was immediately a difference in how this sounded differently to the LM88. The LM88 was warmer(tubey) and the LM150 sounded more neutral maybe with a hint of warmth overall. I did not want to do any critical listening whatsoever and wanted to give the amp good time to settle in. Played it for about 8 hours a day at low volumes and every now and then id play one or two tracks at a loud volume and I would smile and go back to do other things. No amp ever has sounded so good for me out of the box. Upon checking with Robert, the amp was run in for about 50 hours so that explains. I had no doubts in my mind that this amp is the best match for my speakers so that gave me a big relief and I was not ready for another dance with a new amp.


So this amp is not a stock LM amp. There has been some mods that is done which is part of an upgrade package that the SG dealer offers. Upgrades include Mundorf Power Capacitors, Vishay Resistors, Mundorf Silver Gold Oil, Furutec Cryogenic Rhodium AC inlet, etc. The amp also is rated for 230V which is what SG uses. The amp comes with Psvane 12AX7 T series Mark II as stock. All other tubes are the same as the ones that are listed on the website. I was also advised to change the 6SN7 to the PSVANE CV-181 TII which are expected to reach me next week.


150 Hours:



So once I did about 150 hours, I got into a reviewer mode and I was stress testing the amp to make sure that it can do the things I want it to do.



So let me first list out the things that this amp is not.

1. It is not a dreamy, syrupy romantic amp which is usually described with tube amps.
2. It will not make bad recordings sound good.
3. Even though it has 100 tube watts, it will not better a solid state amp in the tightness of the bass so the best of both worlds analogy should be taken with a pinch of salt.
4. This won’t glow like most other Tube Amps. I am stating this because for many the glow is a big appeal.

And what will be your first impressions

1. The LM88 could throw a pretty wide sound stage by itself but the LM150 went much wider. It is also the function of the speaker so if your speaker can keep up then you are in for a treat. I also found the sound stage to be taller.
2. Resolution is intense. Like it picks up the minutest of things. It is really a special feeling when you hear something new in a track that you have been hearing for a long time. It was always there but this amp just presents it to you and then you cannot just unhear it. In billie Jean, you can clearly count the number of times MJ is snapping his fingers throughout the track.
3. Big Sound – This amp sounds powerful. It sounds big. Everything is life like or even bigger whether it is something you want or not is your choice. The sound just surrounds you. In HFO by Eagles, when the audience claps, you get a feeling that the crowd is clapping from behind you. I have not heard this before anywhere.
4. Fluid – The amp is super fluid. The music just flows fast. The dynamics are just insane. Even the micro dynamic swings are so easily picked up. It can keep up with Master of Puppets by Metallica. Foot Tapping guaranteed once you set up the entire chain as per your liking. I found that the power cable made a difference with this amp than the rest of my amps.
5. Slam – This amp SLAMS hard. It hits you like a sledge hammer. It is not the most accurate bass which one might be used if you had a good solid state amp. The bass is rounded more like what a Mcintosh solid state amp produces. I honestly didn’t find it flabby. In fact, I feel this amp will put many SS amps to shame when it comes to slam.
6. Layering – This amp can layer very well. Each performer clearly has his place in the sound stage and it gives a good sense of distance.

So if I were to break it down to how this amp performs in the diff ranges



Highs – The highs extend a lot more than the LM88. Treble is airy and detailed with no sense of harshness at the top. As I had mentioned previously, my wife is uber sensitive to anything that pierces her ear and not once did she ever say that the amp was bright or harsh. This one statement made a big difference for me as I know that if she doesn’t like what she is hearing, I am not going to be listening to music as much.



Mids – Mids are very open. You can hear the air. The mid-range is rich and meaty but not necessarily warm or dark. It has a lot of clarity. My wife said this amp is a vocalist’s dream. Vocals sound spectacular. Frank Sinatra and Leonard Cohen kind of vocals are surreal.



Lows – The bass hits you hard. Round fat bass but not woolly or flabby. Does not have the tightness that you will get in some good SS amps. If you choice of music is EDM then clearly a tube amp is not going to cut it for you.



Strings, Piano , Electric guitars – Sound Excellent.



Percussion – It is not pin point accurate but for most people it would be acceptable. Some might prefer the fatter presentation of the drums.



Heat: If you are new to tubes, how hot tubes get will be a big concern and I searched the internet but I could not find a simple answer. The LM88 with smaller tubes get hotter than the LM150 with the bigger tubes. If I had known this, I probably would have got the LM150 in the first place. With grills on, they are hot to touch but It won’t burn your pet or kid. I will recommend keeping the grill on at all times (it doesn’t affect the sound ) for the safety of your kid or pet. The LM805 on the other hand is just not meant to be kept within the reach of anyone who it can harm.



LM150 vs 805 – This will all boil down to your speaker and living conditions (heat/safety) The 805 has a golden midrange that is very addictive. You can listen to any source material for hours and not feel tired. The LM150 has a different type of midrange but I can understand why people like the 805. The lows and highs are easily better on the 150. The 805 does not extend at both the extremes. It is the midrange king and it will play to that strength for hours and hours and it is addictive. With an easy to drive speaker, the 805 will be quite the winner but it surely has its restrictions. One cannot say one is better than the other and I guess that is why LM decided to price them exactly the same.



One might ask why go with a tube amp if you have a difficult speaker instead it is easier and cheaper to find a good solid state amp and I was on the same boat as well before I made the plunge. There are things no matter what you would like to imagine in your head, only a tube amp can do compared to a similarly priced SS amp. The 3d sound stage is effortless on a tube amp. The layering is much better on tubes. The low level details and the openness that tubes give is quite hard to get on similarly priced SS gear. This is not a SS vs Tube debate. SS have plenty of advantages as well and I’ve been with SS for the longest time. But the more I have heard this amp, I keep asking myself, will I got back to SS and if yes, will I have to spend a lot more? Please also remember that if you are first time tube user, then there is a cost involved. Tubes have to be replaced. Bigger the tubes, more they cost. The Total cost of ownership over a period of time will be much higher than SS so do factor all this in.



I hope this helps those entering the world of tubes for the first time or who are confused with the diff offerings of Line Magnetic. Picking the right LM amp for your speaker is very important.



May the Glow be with You!