List all The Beatles Waltzes

I believe you are perhaps dropping a beat, give the song a listen again:

Now............it's...time............. to...say..............Good Night................
1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4 -- 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4 -- 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4 -- 1 -- 2 -- 3 -- 4

I do however think that it might have been a better song Veech's way, without the 4th beat!

 

One more:

She said, she said! The bridge "No, no, no you're wrong. When I was a boy..."

Wicked stuff.

 

It's certainly easy to imagine it that way. It's a wonder Lennon didn't suggest they try it that way - considering other songs were tried that way (like "I'll Be Back")

 

Number Nine... Number Nine... Number Nine...
1-2-3... 1-2-3... 1-2-3... okay so it's not.

 

Well, there are some waltz tempo pieces in "Revolution #9", including the first piano piece.

 

I disagree. What do you make of the eight beats (with no singing) that follow "friend" and "again"?

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that triplets are usually sung and played with equal emphasis. Clearly, the music in this passage has the classic waltz signature of a strong 1 followed by a lighter 2 and 3.

 

How's this for an explanation. Excerpted from Tim Riley's Tell Me Why book.

It's structure is simple: Paul sings the verses, Lennon sings the bridges. It's the details that are telling: Paul's verses are hopeful, they're in major and have a steady beat; Lennon's bridge is in minor. the sentiment is frustrated, and the rhythm jumps into double time. The two are linked by a small triplet figure that comes at the end of each line in the bridge, an oom-pah-pah merry-go-round of musical image that conveys the futility of the argument.

Personally, I hear remnants of Russian or Greek folk tunes in the bridge, especially Ringo's off-kilter symbal smashes... this is something none of Paul's drummers seem to replicate live. Ron

 

Hmmm.... I'm still hearing the triplets. It does make me wonder where triplets in 4/4 stops and 3/4 starts, though. Is there a hard and fast musical definition that distinguishes one from the other?

 

It's very interesting this type of transcription, on "We Can Work It Out".

I'd say, if you can tap your foot in 4/4 without any tempo change. Which I feel can be done with this song without losing a beat or the same feel. Then what we have here is two measures of quarter note triplets, a very simple polyrhythm 6 against 4. Yet sounding or giving you the feel that you have changed time signatures into 3/4 or perhaps 6/8.

The key word here is "FEEL". So since I can basically say that my foot can tap perfectly in 4/4 time without losing a single beat I'd say the person that did the transcription for the sheet music would be correct.

Jazz Guitarist "Wes Montgomery" was a perfect example of using quarter note triplets in songs and while improvising and while playing in 4/4 time. As a matter of fact he did record a song called 6 to 4.

Back to "We Can Work It Out"

What I think has happened over the years is that when Paul has played the song live in many different settings including acoustically, where he will emphasize that section of the song to make it FEEL like he actually has changed the TEMPO so that in fact it is in 3/4 time.

Though this is not the case in the original Beatles recording that we all know and love.

 

I just had a fascinating little musical experience. I walked off to get a coffee humming Good Night in 3/4, and by the time I got back to my desk it was in 4/4! I change my vote - His Master's Vice is right.

 

Yes he is You know the song does have a pretty little melody. The recording itself is a bit on the over-produced side... would love to hear a nice acoustic demo with Lennon singing it gently... oh well. Ron

 

As per my earlier post - quoting from a respected classical musicologist in 1968 - I'm fairly sure it was Deryck Cooke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deryck_Cooke) - he explained that the bridge actually maintains 4/4 time while Lennon sings in triplets.

Beyond my limited comprehension!

Cooke was one of many musicologists who were fascinated by the Beatles' innate musical adventures.

Others were Hans Keller, Fritz Speigel and most famously William Mann - classical critic for The Times - who in late December 1963 famously wrote about their "pandiatonic clusters" "flat sub-mediant key switches" and "aeolian cadences" - and that was mainly just about "Not A Second Time"!!!

It's interesting that it was mainly Lennon who played with meter and time sigs - probably (as I mentioned earlier) to accommodate his lyrics. Often in his bridges.

George started playing with time sigs when the Indian influence impacted his composing.

Paul seems less experimental in respect of time sigs. And more firmly rooted in the 4/4 tradition.

 

Except that waltzes "oom-pah-pah," whereas triplets do not.

I think everyone is confusing time with feel. Because the four measures of 3/4 take exactly the same amount of time to elapse as two measures of 4/4, you're all assuming that the 4/4 time remains in effect.

If Paul sang "fight" with exactly the same emphasis as "-ing my"...and if the musical beats that followed his emphasized "friend" were played with equal emphasis, rather than with a stronger first beat...then I would agree that they were triplets.

But that's not the case.

 

Of course, I meant to write "If JOHN and Paul sang...."

 

You guys are way too occupied with "Work it out" !

Take this:

Pollack's analysis of She said:

Bridge
If the gory details are too daunting at first sight, here's a high-level view of this bridge:
The f-minor chord is introduced for the first time in the song at what is possibly the moment of climax, and is used to help make a pivot modulation to E-flat, the key of the IV.
The meter may be erratic but it's not without its own pattern. This little chart indicates the succession of measures and the number of beats in each:
She said "you don't understand what I said". I said [ 4 + 4 ]
"No, no, no, you're wrong. When I was a boy, [ 3 + 3 + 3 ]
Everything was right. [ 6 + 3 ]
Everything was right." [ 6 + 3 ]

[Figure 12.3]

Our great illustration of the principle of keeping some musical parameters steady when maxing out on others is two-fold: rather than "fight" the changing meter (at risk of obscuring it), both the harmonic rhythm and the drumming are slavishly at the meter's service. The chords change on every measure boundary, and the drumming (and the bass as well) forgo fancy syncopation for strictly even eighth-note marking of the beat.
One detail you might quibble with me on are the measures shown as being six beats instead of two measures, each with three beats. I've chosen to go with six beats because of where the chord changes are, and because I hear the those six beats accented by the voice part as though they are broken into 4+2, not 3+3; i.e. I hear the words accented as "everything", not "everything."
Without further ado, here are those gory details! Without music paper, this will be a bit awkward to map out, but let's go for it. This is the notational convention used below:
Each group of lines enclosed within dashed lines below represents one measure of music.
The number in the left margin indicates the number of beats in the measure.
The beats in the measure are marked out in the top line of the group.
The lyrics are laid out across the measure in the second line of the group.
The chords are labeled in the third line of the group.
The "Roman Numerals" for the chords are labeled in the bottom line of the group.

--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4
4 She said "you don't under-
B-flat A-flat
B-flat: I flat-VII
--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4
4 stand what I said." I said
B-flat
B-flat: I
--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3
3 "No, no, no you're
A-flat
B-flat: flat-VII
---------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3
3 wrong. When I was a
B-flat
B-flat: I
---------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3
3 Boy - -
f
B-flat: v
E-flat: ii ** point of pivot
--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6
6 - - - every- thing was
B-flat
E-flat: V
--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3
3 ri- ght.
E-flat
E-flat: I
--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6
6 - - - every- thing was
B-flat
E-flat: V
--------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3
3 ri- ght.
E-flat
E-flat: I
B-flat: IV ** point of pivot back
--------------------------------------------------------

Interesting stuff, btw

 

ACK!! You are absolutely right! I have totally mis-remembered the time signature....

As I compiled the list, I hummed a bit of every Beatles song to myself, and I thought for sure that Good Night was in 3/4, it sounded totally natural to me that way, but I'm wrong!

Thanks for the refresh!

 

A few more waltzes... Well for a few bars

The first lines in "Blackbird" are in 3/4.

Paul bent the time sigs on "Martha My Dear" and there are bars of 3/2 dotted in it.

George got into waltz time quite a bit in 1968-1970. As has been noted previously - "Long Long Long" and "I, Me, Mine"

Add to that "Behind That Locked Door" for ATMP and "Try Some Buy Some" - a song for Ronnie Spector - both written during that same era.

 

Well we have had Love songs, ballads, Film Music and rock and roll music! but i don't think The Beatles Waltzes Music quite cuts it for a new complication!!!!

 

I always saw it as this...similar but stretched out...

Now........it's time........ to...say.........Good Night............
1 -----2 ---- 3 -----4 ----- 1----- 2 ----- 3---- 4----