Listenin' to Jazz and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    I think Black Codes is a classic. But I do agree with the criticism that like a lot of early Marsalis it pretty heavily warms over a lot of Miles '60s quartet sounds and ideas. (And personally I find Jeff Watts a drummer who is not at all to my taste.)

    It's unfortunate for Marsalis' music that he fell in full force with Albert Murray and Stanley Crouch and the neo-conservative intellectual war against jazz impurity. It did wonders for his career, but it meant that many folks -- myself included -- struggle to hear his music for whatever merits it has (his great tone, his incredibly rigorous sense of line).

    I'm not big on neo-conservatism and neo-classicism and retro appeal to old verities, so I might not have ever fallen in love with the music anyway, but when it came along with the neo-con polemics, it just kind of became a turn-off (as bad as Murray was, and as smart alecky as Marsalis sometimes came off, the worst was Crouch -- hath no crab more crabby than an avant gardist turned neo-con).

    Later, it seems, like Marsalis' neo-classicist urge drove him farther and farther backwards in time. He'd wed these ambitious projects to some of the quaintest, most old-fashioned gestures. But I would say that in doing so he did come up with a distinctive voice and artistic identity, like it or not.
     
  2. Lonson

    Lonson Don't Get Around Much Anymore Thread Starter

    I think they're waiting for the Watermelon Man to appear. He just left the Empyrean Isles.
     
    Fender Relic, Ray Cole and Yesternow like this.
  3. Kirsten

    Kirsten I sing my sorrow, and I paint my joy. J. Mitchell

    But he is evolving, he did help Clapton make his best album in years.
     
    bluemooze likes this.
  4. A good decision. My collection allready was big enough when starting to type them into a database (Paradox). I did every day 25 Items and discovered on this way several duplicates (reissues with different btitles and coverart). Today the database is an immense help.
     
    bluemooze likes this.
  5. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    BM??
     
  6. Beatnik_Daddyo'73

    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 Music Addiction Personified

    bluemooze, dZp, pitro and 9 others like this.
  7. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    Is Carol King considered jazz?

     
    bluemooze likes this.
  8. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    On the streets of New York Today I overheard two cops talking about Lenny Bruce and how he would react to current events. True, they were not real young guys. But, again, I have to say... "Only in New York".

    My cancer check up was good, but the doctor could not predict how long it would be before I could go on the road as a Tom Waits impersonator. Voice decline is for sure. Maybe that can be my ticket. Waits has been off the road for so long, most people don't know what he looks like.
     
    peter1, eeglug, markp and 6 others like this.
  9. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I think you are projecting the world of politics and war too much onto the world of music. War is bloody murder.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  10. Stu02

    Stu02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Branford Marsalis
     
    Mugrug12 likes this.
  11. Stu02

    Stu02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I dunno , I see the point. Its like when someone on this thread starts stating things as if they are facts rather then opinions. It would be one thing if he had just happened to love neo conservative jazz, its another thing when he preaches certain types of jazz are wrong.
    Of course that will make people bristle
     
  12. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum pResident

    Location:
    Portugal
    War, children, it's just a shot away, it's just a shot away.

    But I tell you love, brother, it's just a kiss away, it's just a kiss away.
     
    dennis the menace likes this.
  13. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    I always thought Wynton's was more
    Of a semantic argument. Like what kinds of music can be considered "jazz" or should have some other label like "improvised music". Which is really something we all talk about. He just did it more arrogantly than most people. But he never said any kind of music is "wrong" just that the word jazz should only apply to certain kinds of music. That is something I think we all agree on but most folks (unlike WM) have the humility to say that they can't draw the exact line themselves.

    Unfortunately he is now more famous for this arrogance and saying players have to wear suits etc than for his playing, which is jaw dropping amazing imo. I'm also a big fan of Tain Watts and Brandford's playing!

    NP
    [​IMG]
     
    bluemooze, markp, Berthold and 6 others like this.
  14. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    An artist's work is what matters. In recent times, there is talk about removing the works of Robert Frost and Ezra Pound from literature study. Before long they will go after Emily Dickinson. If they ever find out who Shakespeare actually was, he may go on the list.
     
    dennis the menace likes this.
  15. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    Yes but it's hard to exactly draw the line. Can you think of any artist or entertainer who has done something so objectionable that you don't want to listen to/watch his work?
    Or another way to look at it: can you think of some act that is so heinous you wouldn't want to support an artist guilty of it?

    Of course this doesn't apply to Wynton I'm just saying these lines arent easily drawn.
     
    dennis the menace and Stu02 like this.
  16. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I'm talking about opinions in this case. Not actions. Frost is being removed for his opinions. Pound was placed in a cage for his opinions.
     
  17. Stu02

    Stu02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I dont disagree with that , ( your point of view I mean) though I think there are lines there that can be crossed into hate speech, but I take your point. ( and I dont want Gorts after us for political talk so Ill stop that line of thought there)

    But my point was more that I can understand why people were turned off ( bristle) by this.
    Its natural
     
  18. Stu02

    Stu02 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    [​IMG]
    Meanwhile on channel 2...
     
  19. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    You can be an aesthetic neo-conservative or an artistic progressive, absolutely, which may or may not be reflected in an analog in your politics (though in this case the rise of these cultural neo-cons was not coincidentally coincident with a rise in US political neo-conservatism). And Albert Murray and Stanley Crouch, who were Marsalis' intellectual godfathers and patrons, were, and in Crouch's case, are political and cultural commentators and thinkers, the role of music in their political and cultural world view, and their world view in their opinions and ideas about music, were inseparable. (And Crouch would go to war with you physically too, he was fired from the Village Voice after a fist fight with another critic, and psychologically as when he outed Cecil Taylor in the early '80s.) Wynton Marsalis the polemicist -- and a kind of public intellectual war was on in the '80s in NY jazz circles -- to me, can't really be understood without looking at Murray and Crouch and the cultural and political backlash to the "excesses" of the '60s whether that was in Reagan conservatism, or wanting to purge the annals of "true jazz" of free jazz, fusion, and white "European," sometimes "effete" influences. This was a big public colloquy.

    As I say, I think it's overshadowed and really buried some of the virtues of Marsalis' art -- his ambition, his gorgeous tone, his really rigorous thoughtful line playing. But as much as anyone, he made it part of the conversation around his art (and clearly it shaped his art).
     
    eeglug, Byrdsmaniac, jay.dee and 2 others like this.
  20. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    NP Eric Dolphy - Out To Lunch (Blue Note)
    I'm on a long road trip of the west/southwest at the moment so selection is limited but I did rip my Music Matters 45 RPM Pressing of this album to my Pono player which I'm playng through a portable JBL speaker in my hotel room in Nevada. Trip has been amazing already and we've only been on the road four days. We listened to Love Supreme and Sketches Of Spain in Yosemite.
     
  21. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I don't disagree. I went overboard expressing an opinion about judging others for their opinions. Perhaps Wynton had the misfortune of being given a frequent platform in the media, most likely because he is eloquent, and the media (print and broadcast) looks for that. Personally, I do not believe that the opinions of Murray, Crouch or Marsalis ever had any effect, positive or negative, on music itself or the enjoyment of music.
     
    Byrdsmaniac likes this.
  22. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Thanks for mentioning this one. First time I'm hearing it. I'm really digging it.
     
    Dahabenzapple likes this.
  23. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    This was my prize today. A mint copy of this 10 inch LP on Savoy. Some have written that it came out after Parker's death, but that is not true.

    [​IMG]

    The first 12 inch LP of Parker on Savoy (Memorial) was issued very shortly after his death in 1955. On the cover, Savoy included images of their four previously issued 10 inch LPs. These 10 inch LPs were alternate covers issued as second pressings shortly after the first pressings

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  24. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I had used that photograph for an illustration that I did in 1975 to create a poster on the 20th anniversary of Bird's death which also included a poem about Parker by Jack Kerouac. I had about 200 copies printed and hung them around town. Many people removed them for their collection, which was just fine with me.

    This is not my illustration, but mine was not dissimilar. After all, we both used the same photo as the basis. I only have one copy left in deep storage somewhere. I also did posters for Coltrane and Dolphy (with poems) around that time, all hung around town for free. Store owners said OK, and some asked why I was doing this.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 nothing gold can stay

    Location:
    SF
    Nice one! What stores do you (or anyone reading) reccomeen there? I will be in nyc in two days.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019

Share This Page