Listenin' to Jazz and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Branford Marsalis recently said that Robert Glasper doesn’t play jazz.
     
  2. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    :uhhuh: I remember reading that and also remember Glasper's responses which were basically how 2-faced BM is. Sad state of affairs for a grown man feeling the need to behave that way.
     
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  3. Berthold

    Berthold "When you swing....swing some more!" -- Th. Monk

    Location:
    Rheinhessen
    Beside the deep and intense discussion about the Marsalis brothers I like to listen to some Wynton Marsalis this time

    Wynton Marsalis: Standard Time #3

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  4. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    When I was in the City yesterday, I saw some interesting art work hand drawn by Charlie Parker himself.

    Bird was upset by the image that David Stone Martin drew for the cover of CP with Strings.

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    So Parker drew his own image right on the cover in the yellow area. He also did pencil sketches on the paper inner sleeve. Bird's drawings were a great improvement.

    I agree with Parker. I did not like ANY of the images created by David Stone Martin for a Parker cover, though I enjoy most of his work.

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    Though I enjoy this one below as an art work on its own, it still does not capture Parker's energy at all. I wonder if DSM struggled with how to represent Parker. The bird motif was overdone.

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  5. Mirror Image

    Mirror Image Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)

    If the Marsalis brothers have just kept their mouths shut and played the music, then we wouldn’t be talking about how utterly f****** elitist they are. One member here said they were ‘good for jazz’. I strongly disagree. They were perpetuators of a dead style of jazz. A style that, IMHO, had already been stretched as far as it could go in the 60s. I think what many of the listeners that latched onto Marsalis and labelled him as some kind of ‘jazz savior’ failed to understand is they’re simply holding onto an idea that has already happened in jazz music. What the the Marsalis brothers did was resurrect and exploit a style of jazz that had already happened and the listeners that lapped it up were merely nostalgic for that older period of jazz music. I think there’s a place for traditional sounding jazz, but the fact that the Marsalis brothers felt the need to talk trash and degrade other types of jazz just because it didn’t fit into some comfortable box for them, tells me everything I need to know not only about them but about their music as well.
     
  6. Beatnik_Daddyo'73

    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 Music Addiction Personified

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  7. Mirror Image

    Mirror Image Jean Sibelius (1865 - 1957)

    I couldn’t agree more. Jazz At Lincoln Center, IMHO, is nothing more than a platform for Marsalis’ one-sided, conservative musical agenda.
     
  8. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum pResident

    Location:
    Portugal
    Saw "Joker" last week. Amazing performance by Phoenix... Outstanding really.

    In that movie there's a sequence with Gary Gliter's "rock 2" in the background.
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    It's a rock classic. It flows perfectly with that part of the movie.

    The day after I was playing that track in my car. Me and my 9 year old son were singing "hey" along with the song. Having a good time.

    Yes, it came across my mind how despicable Gary is. A pedophile... Can you get lower than that?!


    Apart from some of his music I don't know Marsalis that well. I would read some of his interviews just to have a laugh - his attitude has that effect on me.

    Anyway, I've played Black Codes again yesterday and enjoyed it as always.
     
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  9. Beatnik_Daddyo'73

    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 Music Addiction Personified

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  10. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    The subscription season programming is largely built around the same kind of middle of the road, easy appeal that a lot of jazz festivals are (the upcoming season features Bobby McFerrin, Dianne Reeves, Michael Feinstein, a swinging tribute to Sesame Street, Steve Miller playing blues), commissions seem to favor the artistic director himself (they're doing his Abyssinian Mass this season) and you can count on work from a clique of associates every year (the AD's brother is also on the schedule for a gig this year). That's mostly where my criticism lies. There's more to the institution of course -- the educational programs, especially for kids, for example, which I have no experience with. And they run a small "club" venue in the location which is fine. I just wish, given the profile and the resources, that the institution was a lot more creative and dynamic. Like I said, I think it's a really missed opportunity for both jazz and NYC.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  11. Dan Steele

    Dan Steele Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    Started the day with some Bossa Nova

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  12. Dan Steele

    Dan Steele Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    Now playing: Poly-Currents. His wife Keiko threw in some clunkers on later albums but like her composition Mr Jones here along with Agenda. Get some Pepper Adams, George Coleman, Joe Farrell, and Candido, the typical instrumentation from Elvin’s late 60s/early 70s albums.

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  13. Robitjazz

    Robitjazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liguria, Italy
    What do you think about this compilation by Charlie Parker?
    I'm considering a purchase.

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  14. Beatnik_Daddyo'73

    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 Music Addiction Personified

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  15. Dan Steele

    Dan Steele Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago suburbs
    Not disagreeing, just one correction, imo Delfaeyo Marsalis is a Marsalis brother that has nothing to do with this (afaik) and based on the 2 shows I saw of his band in New Orleans a few weeks ago as well as his comments after the show and between the songs, comes across as anything but elitist. Branford and Wynton, have at it, but just clarifying there is a 3rd brother who hasnt been as successful from a fame standpoint and maybe for that reason is still among the people.
     
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  16. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    From my perspective, this kind of stuff is just as biased as the Marsalis brothers statements
     
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  17. jamo spingal

    jamo spingal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
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    Not what I expected, less Binker & Moses and more retro post-bob. But a really nice listen.
     
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  18. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    I can understand if anyone prefers master takes only as opposed to complete sessions. I don't know this particular issue, but I would suggest having as many of the Verve master takes as possible. The Jam Session and JATP performances by Bird (all on Verve) are nice to have, but not as essential as the sessions led by Bird, as he has only one solo in each extended long piece in the JATP/Jams.

    I would go with the best price for as many of his Verve master takes that you can get in Italy. Don't exclude the sessions with strings.

    This particular issue does not appear (from the cover) to have any of Parker's straight bebop material recorded for Verve. If you do not have those master takes (e.g. the sessions with Dizzy, the quartets with Al Haig, etc.), they are essential and maybe a higher priority.

    Can you get this at a decent price? The packaging is weird, but the music is great:

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    If you want everything, this Italian Verve set may still be available at a bargain price. It is identical mastering, as far as I know, to the USA bulkier set:

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    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  19. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Perhaps so. I'm not really concerned that Wynton Marsalis is biased or has tastes or perspectives or preferences. Why not? We all do. My beef is with his particular preferences and opinions.

    In re J@LC programming, I really don't know that another season of programming the same handful of singers (Reeves & McFerrin & Feinstein), and the same kind of crossover gigs (rock star plays the blues, swinging Sesame Street), that get on pretty much every corporate sponsored summer jazz festival across the US every year, does much to "enrich and expand a global community for jazz," to quote the organization's mission statement. We really don't need a major, endowed, not-for-profit rep institution like J@LC to put together that kind of programming.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  20. Robitjazz

    Robitjazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liguria, Italy
    I am discovering Gil Mellè of which I knew something of BN period (50s). Very interesting...This album seems to be hard to find, unfortunately.

     
  21. chervokas

    chervokas Forum Resident

    Bird with strings and the Latin jazz stuff, though not typically bebop quintet stuff, are certainly essential Charlie Parker, Bird with strings is my fave Bird, actually. But I've never much loved any of the Norman Granz jam session or JATP recordings.
     
  22. Bobby Boogaloo

    Bobby Boogaloo Heavy on the grease please

    Location:
    Southeastern US
    Be that as it may, not in the same ball park in terms of the reach these artists have with their commentary. It's also the type of reaction they provoke as reactionaries themselves.
     
  23. Beatnik_Daddyo'73

    Beatnik_Daddyo'73 Music Addiction Personified

    NP:

    Charles Mingus ‎–
    The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

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    Recorded in New York on January 20, 1963
     
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  24. Tribute

    Tribute Forum Resident

    While I accept that, it must be recognized that Granz achieved something quite remarkable through the JATP concept, later expressed in the studio in the Jam Sessions.

    First, Granz did not insert himself in directing the musicians as to what to play or how to play, as nearly all concert promoters and record producers had (from then until today, but certainly in the 1940s-1950s). They were free to play what they wished.

    Second, and very interesting, Granz accepted no money for producing the JATP shows. The money went to the musicians.

    Third, Granz created the very concept of the jazz concert and he wanted people to be able to listen as music, not dance for entertainment or drink booze.

    Finally, and most importantly, he battled against segregation and discrimination in concert halls and accommodations for the musicians, and he largely won that battle. He also demanded fair compensation for musicians at all events and in their recordings. He never cheated the musicians, as nearly every record company has.

    The success of JATP, with jazz as a concert form of music, had tremendous impact. Others started to copy his success (most shows were sold out). Jazz festivals were a direct follow-up. Who knows if jazz concerts would ever have occurred without Granz efforts. He had to battle many forces to achieve that. His emphasis of letting musicians direct their own music was way ahead in time. He wanted musicians to be able to apply their talents to jazz as an art form, not as pop/novelty/dance music.

    All of these reasons were why many of the great musicians of that time flocked to his label. There were some great musicians who could not, often because they were bound up in unfair contracts, or were paid in the vicious "narcotics-for-recording" cycle used by many jazz labels. Granz could not always buy up all of these unfair contracts (he tried), and could not always shake musicians from the narcotics-as-payment system.

    Granz, more than just about anybody, fought for recognition of jazz musicians as artists, not as mere entertainers. His efforts laid the groundwork for jazz education and recognition of jazz in universities and music conservatories. The bread and butter for most jazz musicians in the avant garde has become as educators, allowing them to not have to labor in day jobs that restrict their ability to create music.

    That all started with JATP.
     
  25. Robitjazz

    Robitjazz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liguria, Italy
    It's pretty curious the fact I don't own any JATP recordings. It's not my reasoned stance, but I have to say that here in Italy after the generation of critics established after the WWII until early seventies (I began to listen to jazz continuously and consciously about mid-1970s), the interest towards Norman Granz's recordings has gone down.
    My impression is that perhaps Granz was too much admired by those critics; then it was the other way around and so Granz is not rated into his right perspective, at least here in Italy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019

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