Listenin' to Jazz and Conversation

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Maseman66

    Maseman66 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Westchester, NY
    Wayne Shorter - Ju Ju
    with McCoy Tyner, Reggie Workman and Elvin Jones, recorded in August 1964. Beautiful music.
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  2. NP: Dexter Gordon - Homecoming Live at The Village Vanguard (Columbia 2xLP 1977)
    In Gordon's bio by his wife (Sophisticated Giant), this homecoming concert is one of the strongest sections as Maxine is talking first-hand from having arranged it.
    I'm becoming a Woody Shaw completist and he's in fine form here. Everyone sounds delighted that Dexter is back in NYC!
    This set is a bargain on vinyl and readily available.

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    John Collier's paintings of jazz musicians are so sympathetic. This one of Dexter Gordon is one of many strong examples.
    I have these on the Verve reissues (Lester Young, Billie Holiday, Charlie Parker, Count Basie, Ella) and the cover art is part of the appeal.
    See the covers here (though Collier's discography needs completing): John Collier (3)

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    What's your favorite Collier cover?
     
  3. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I'm not sure that I have a favorite Collier cover, as I think more about the artist represented in the painting.

    But these covers were close-up details, or portions, of much larger paintings which included a group of musicians together, each musician represented in the "two-fer" reissues.

    At the time of each release (of a batch of albums), a promotional poster of the large painting was sent to some record stores. I had these posters, but gave them away (as I always had oil paintings on my wall and not posters). Now, I wish I had the posters.

    The 12 X 12 square cropping for the album covers took something away from the image, as square cropping often did not "frame" the subject as well as it might have been.

    Some of the portraits were clearly based on photographs, some modified photographs, but others seemed to have been pure creations.

    I do enjoy the contemplative aspect of this Lester Young cover, but wish a more conventional ratio was available for the portrait.

    I wonder who owns the original paintings
     
  4. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    This Bud Powell is an example of the negative aspect of the cropping. Though the image of Bud may be realistic, I feel the artist did not capture Bud's essence very well.

    That may be a very high bar to expect in one painting, but the artist's challenge was to include an entire group of artists together in one painting and to capture the inner spirit of each artist in such a group image was nearly impossible.

    For the same reason, a group photograph rarely represents the individual personalities very well at all. Individual photos can do this far better.

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    davidpoole likes this.
  5. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    This one really blew it. Collier himself probably had no control over the cropping or how his overall paintings would be used.

    That Collier page on discogs is very incomplete

    I am surprised that my fairly quick google image search did not reveal images of his larger paintings from which the entire series of Verve two-fers were extracted

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  6. ATR

    ATR Senior Member

    Location:
    Baystate
    I don't see a release of this on discogs that includes Loopzilla, but it's on youtube. In any event, disc one of the two disc set is enough to blow my circuits any time. It's a live recording that I put in an exclusive group that includes the first side of the self titled live Irakere album.
     
    lschwart, jay.dee, Fischman and 3 others like this.
  7. Bradd

    Bradd Now’s The Time

    Location:
    Chester, NJ
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    Metronome was a music magazine that existed from the late 1800s until 1961. In later years it focused primarily on jazz. In the late 30s and sporadically until 1956, it brought together artists who won readers’ polls. This cd includes musicians from Bunny Berigan to Woody Herman to Dizzy Gillespie and Bird.
     
  8. frightwigwam

    frightwigwam Talented Amateur

    Location:
    Oregon
    Bill Evans/ Turn Out the Stars - The Final Village Vanguard Recordings, June 1980

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    In January, a Montreal Gazette reporter noted that Bill would be back at the Village Vanguard the next week, and wondered whether Bill might record the gig. Bill said that he didn't even know whether Warner Bros. was going to pick up his option. So, unless Mike Harris has more secret tapes stashed away, that run may be lost to time. However, over the next few months, the label decided to give Bill another go, and committed to recording four nights of the trio at the Vanguard in June.

    The box set opens with three numbers from June 4, then three more from the first set on June 5, and covers most of the remaining performances from June 5 through Disc 2. This would be fine, except the selected tracks create an awkward, jarring sequence. "Nardis," from the end of Set 2 on June 4, shows up as the second track on Disc 1. After a few tender ballads, the similar jam vehicle, "My Romance," bursts in. And if you continue on to Disc 2 to hear the rest of June 5, "Nardis" returns in the fourth slot. It just doesn't have a good flow.

    The rest of the set, covering nearly all of June 6 and most of June 8, flows much better. Bill evidently wanted to set the early mood with some introspective ballads, and sprinkle in some upbeat material with more rhythmic drive as the night went on, with "Nardis," "My Romance," and "Five" typically ending a set with a bang. A little bit of that planning is lost with some of the producers' ommissions on June 8, but still it's a well-balanced program over the last two nights. I'd give the nod to some shows from Fall '79 or Summer '80 where he seems to be in deeper spiritual communion, but it's still a great example of the final trio performing at a high level. You do get the sense that they were building toward something new. Kudos to the Warner Bros. engineers, too.

    The Artist's Choice CD of highlights reflects Bill's preferred tracks for an album that was supposed to come out in late 1980, but got shelved when he died in September. Instead, Warner Bros. pulled You Must Believe in Spring from the vault the next year, followed that with The Paris Concert albums, then forgot about Bill Evans for awhile... maybe because Bruce Lundvall left to restart Blue Note for EMI, I guess. Anyway, it would have been a brilliant album, although some key tunes miss the cut, and I'm not sure why they decided to end the CD with a "Nardis" chopped down to 5 minutes when they could have fit a whole performance on there with room to spare. If they didn't think that casual fans really would want the uncut jam, they should have just dropped it and explained in the notes, "Although we have honored Bill's choices to this point, we think an excerpt of 'Nardis' would be a disservice, and we've decided to fill out the CD with other highlights, including some of his latest tunes that didn't get another official recording, instead." Ah, well. Nobody asked me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  9. @Tribute - Delighted you took me up on the question of these paintings.
    Ah, those posters would be great. The full images can be found on the back cover of some releases. Here are four, and the observant will see the details that were subsequently cropped for LP covers (e.g. Bill Evans Trio (close up of his face below), and Porgy and Bess (the painting of Ella and Louis on the wall), the Getz set (close-up of Getz on left), etc etc.

    These are four I found readily and shot from the LP covers (rather hastily, but you get the idea).
    I'd love to have the original paintings. Who owns them? Still Collier perhaps. Or Verve. Collier's reproductions are already expensive so I can only imagine.

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    jay.dee, peter1, Tribute and 14 others like this.
  10. NP: Houston Person - Very Personal (Muse)

    Now for the subset of sultry album covers that take a very personal perspective.
    Feels very much a product of the era - 1981.
    What's the likelihood the HP tattoo is real?

    The music itself is outstanding, so don't let the cheesy cover put you off. Less soul-jazz, and more explorative quartet on ballads.

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  11. Mugrug12

    Mugrug12 The Jungle Is a Skyscraper

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    NP
    John Mclaughlin- Extrapolation
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    Tony Oxley drums
    John Surman reeds
    Brian Odgers drums
     
  12. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Houston Person is a very underrated and under appreciated artist, and yet he has a very extensive catalog of work and has played with some of the biggest and best names in Jazz. Tho he was a bop player for a while, I suspect his soul Jazz to which he lingers has caused him to be an unknown to many.

    And beside....I love the covers:)
     
  13. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    I’ve a few of them as well...and like a dummy I let the one with Dexter go back in the day. But my favorite is the Bill Evans one.
     
    davidpoole likes this.
  14. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    You think it’s possible you might be over thinking things a bit? :) Tho I know you said “I feel”. It’s very possible none involved shared your opinion.... I’ve not seen or heard or read any one with such a strong opinion as yours about the issue. Perhaps you have....it just seems a bit odd. After all...it’s a album cover.
     
  15. Bradd

    Bradd Now’s The Time

    Location:
    Chester, NJ
    I have a couple of those Verve albums, the Bud Powell one (they used a completely different cover for Volume 2) and the Lester one shown in David’s most recent post. I also have a Ben Webster one that looks like it was painted by Mr. Collier.
     
    davidpoole and Slippers-on like this.
  16. bjlefebvre

    bjlefebvre Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC-ish
    Yeah. I've found as I've matured in my music listening, I've been better at discerning what I don't like from what I just don't like now. You learn to recognize some albums that might not enjoy but pique your curiosity enough to mentally throw into the "later" file.

    I listened to the Lester Young Keystone album today on TIDAL. After listening to that I am very much likely to spring for the whole box set, either LP or CD.

    NP: Been streaming bits of the Jelly Roll Morton Library of Congress recordings. I used to listen to it either on Spotify or Rdio back in the day - one of those services had the entire Rounder package that included both the talk and songs, not just the songs taken in isolation that some sets present. The uninterrupted banter between Morton and Alan Lomax, while Morton strums the piano, is part of the allure. For some reason that strumming really intrigues me - it doesn't stop. He'll tell a story for minutes on end and his hands keep vamping, almost like they had a life of their own or his mouth wouldn't work if his hands stopped moving. For those who haven't listened to this, I'd suggest taking a night or two (or three) to listen to the complete Rounders set. Out of all the jazz sets I own/ bookmark, for some reason this one is the one I come back to the most.

    I read a book on Morton years ago that basically made the argument that Morton was kind of a Muhammad Ali of jazz: He bragged a lot, but upon study his claims generally checked out.

    Talking:

     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  17. bjlefebvre

    bjlefebvre Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC-ish
  18. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I did a lot of portrait related work, especially with final cropping. It is very rare that anyone would crop an image the way the Bud Powell image on the cover was cropped. Of course, those were the constraints faced by the final designer when he had to pull an image from a larger painting and was told to make it a 12X12 square. Most designers, if they had freedom and different raw material, would crop the image in a more conventional aspect ratio (usually vertical) and leave white space in the square cover.

    I assume there would be others in this group with interests in design and layout.

    I have also studied almost all of the known images of Bud Powell. Many of them capture his personality far better than this image.

    Bud almost always closed his eyes as he played and appeared to be in another world.

    The designer and artist Francis Paudras, who was Bud's caregiver in his later years, collected well over 1,000 images of Bud and published many of them. As a designer, he didn't crop them this way.

    Of course I have strong opinions. Better than weak ones.

    Here is a nice shot of Bud. This one, by Herman Leonard, captures Bud

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    But this album designer, when he had to force the image into a square, did a good job.

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  19. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Well...If one is/was in the business such as yourself, and knows it’s in and outs...it’s natural that you would have strong concerns as you do. What do I know? Nothing, or not enough. Thanks for correcting me.
     
  20. Yesternow

    Yesternow Forum pResident

    Location:
    Portugal
    The first time I played the CD I couldn't believe what they did.

    We all know that a lot of times the final product isn't really what the artist had in mind. But probably there was some agreements for that or maybe the artist will just punch someone when he finds out.

    But in this case Bill was no longer there to defend himself. And the CD says "the artist's choice".

    Now would someone explain to me in what circumstance would Bill Evans end a live album with an excerpt of Nardis?!

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  21. bjlefebvre

    bjlefebvre Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC-ish
  22. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    I was lucky enough to have a chance to see and hang out with that band a bunch. That rhythm section with Chambers and Skeet was something else.
     
  23. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    I wasn't actually in the business, as most of my work was volunteer (example, I photographed maybe 10 weddings, but for free). I did them a bit differently, as I took portraits of every guest.

    When I was 21, I did consider becoming a magazine layout designer. But the first publisher who said he really liked my work told me he wouldn't pay for it. At that time I wanted to be paid for all of the stress of meeting deadlines and said no thanks. I am glad that I did, because magazine design has, in general, become worthless.
     
  24. bjlefebvre

    bjlefebvre Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC-ish
    NP: Via TIDAL. From my hometown.

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  25. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member


    Here is a nice cover, suitable for framin' (and available cheap)

    And, yes, I would have cropped it differently....but he did good in the 12 inch square (I might have reduced it a small amount to include the complete hat)

    But this image does capture the public's idea of Fats.


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    Same image, not so well done

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    Colorized and modified, but why cut his hands, he was famous for his hands.

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    In this one, I think the use of large font for titles detracts from the visual impact

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    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021

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