I had the European dvd, and it only had one 5.1 mix, although it stated two on the cover. also when it got to This Must Be The Place (Naive Melody) that songs A/V was out of sync, and it made it look like they were miming badly. The bluray I have, had no issues whatsoever with 5.1 selection, and had both soundtracks. Also, and somewhat more importantly for me the A/V was synced correctly. I know I really enjoyed it, and it never struck me that the surround was particularly bad, but I will check it out this afternoon and get back to you guys on it. I'll post which version it is too, so we know what we are looking at.
Here's a list of Stop Making Sense Video releases: Discogs I have the 1999 US Palm Pictures DVD and the 2015 Second Sight bluray.
Fresh Aire 8 Video Collection by Mannheim Steamroller Released April 23, 2002 Director: Andy Anderson Writer: Chip Davis Film Location Omaha, NE Cast Paul R. Coate ... DaVinci's Apprentice Caleb Dewitt ... Extra in theater Mark Hoeger ... Aristotle James Tobey ... Xeno Having just reviewed the surround mix on the surround thread, it is now incumbent upon me to comment on the video that comes with the dual disc version. Unfortunately, the good audio is the DVDA side, while the video with DTS is on the other side – so you can’t have both at once. That seems to be a recurring problem for me this week. The Videos Main Titles Did you know that an infinity symbol looks like an 8 laid down on its side? If not, now you do. Greek Suite (Infinity in Philosophy) We’re in Greece – see the coastline? Now let’s cut to Omaha and pretend we’re still there. This video has some dialogue that isn’t in the main recording: Greek philosophers and their students getting drunk. The girls get up and dance too - that’s the best part for sure. If there’s an underlying plot, I don’t get it. Big Bang (Infinity in Cosmology) No actors here; just stars, planets, and galaxies. Much better, with a great surround track. Leonardo (The Infinite Thinker) Leonardo thinking, with a pretty nice soundtrack going on at the same time. Fractals (Infinity in Mathematics) This is cool, and it’s on Youtube: The stereo soundtrack is very nice, but the surround mix is awesome. Just to give an idea of what it is like – the 15 second percussion sequence that starts at 0:22 and goes L-R-L-R in stereo instead goes FL-FR-RL-RR in surround. Waterfall (Infinity in Art) A toy sailboat can sail a long way if there is an aqueduct to carry it to the ocean. The Circle of Love (Infinity in the Wedding Band) You know that obelisk in 2001? With a little photoshopping, you can turn it into a ring. The Steamroller (Infinity in Music) Some old black and white animation spliced together with what seems to be an old black and white film clip of a jazz band. Then again, it may have been shot in Omaha more recently– looks like Chip is on Drums. The fact that it ends up being in color confirms that suspicion. I like this one; it also has a great surround track. The Heart and the Feather (Infinity in the Egyptian Afterlife) When I first heard this with just the audio, I’m thinking Lawrence of Arabia. But, as it turns out, it’s about a guy working in the basement of a local pyramid who accidentally gets blasted across the universe. Fortunately, he wakes up. This track also has some dialogue not on the DVDA side. ______ OK, so there’s no way anyone is going to buy this for the video. But if you have it, watch it at least once. It’s a trip from Chip. I had it sitting on the shelf for 15 years before I got around to it. Music – 2 Sound quality – 2 (listen to the DVDA side for a 3) Video presentation – 1 (Big Bang, Fractals, and Steamroller are 2’s though) Video quality – 2 Surround – 3 You'll notice that this gets a pretty high overall rating even though it's not a very good video. That's because this is a music forum, not a video forum - 60% of the rating is for audio.
There are now enough reviews on here to do an index. I’m pulling in one from the surround thread that didn’t fit there. I’m also putting up my ratings for the ones I have – see post #1 for an explanation of them. Ranges indicate that the rating is version dependent. The reviews are mine unless other attribution is given. The video content is categorized as follows Concert Documentary: Contains extensive narration along with some performance footage. Live Performance: Mostly concert footage, perhaps with a little narration. Movie: A theater release featuring a particular band or artist Studio Performance: Video of Recording in Studio Video Collection: Collection of music videos that may or may not include live performance Beatles – Help! / Movie / Rating: 7 Cave, Nick – Once More With Feeling / Concert Documentary (mark winstanley) Dylan, Bob – No Way Home / Concert Documentary (mark winstanley) Gabriel, Peter – Secret World Live / Live Performance / Rating: 13 Genesis – Pop Shop Live TV 1972 / Studio Performance / Rating: 9 Iron Maiden – Flight 666 / Concert Documentary (mark winstanley) Mannheim Steamroller – Fresh Aire 8 / Video Collection / Rating: 10 Pink Floyd – Devi/ation 1970 / Video Collection / Rating: 6 Talking Heads – Stop Making Sense / Live Performance / Rating: 11-13 Townsend, Devin – Ocean Machine – Live / Live Performance (mark winstanley) / Rating: 10-12 Wilson, Steven – Home Invasion / Live Performance / Rating: 15 Yes – Yessongs / Live Performance / Rating: 7 Zimmer, Hans – Live in Prague / Live Performance (thetman) Comments on any of the above are always welcome. I figure on updating the reference list once a month.
Stop Making Sense Psycho Killer studio mix - As would be expected this is very light on any kind of surround. The beatbox drums seem to be in stereo. Live mix - sounds pretty much identical. Heaven - studio mix - again all we have on stage is a bass, an acoustic, and vocals. The bass is slightly right, the acoustic slightly left. I have always wondered where the backing vocal is coming from? Live mix - again seems pretty much identical. The backing vocal is slightly louder in the live mix and seems to be right side in the last chorus. Thank you for sending me an angel Studio mix - some cymbals either side but again, an up front mix for the most part, just with drums added. Live mix - same mix, but the cymbals slightly louder and wider Found a job Studio mix - pretty much up front. Live mix - again more width in the cymbal The gradual building of the band and the stage was quite brilliant, in my opinion of course. Slippery people. Studio mix - congas just right of front right. Guitar and bass front. Keys left side. Bvox just left of front left. Fx on beep, b beep vocal move into sides and rears. Live mix - the live mix surprisingly seems more distinct so far in all instances. The girls backing vocals seem louder better and more spread. The little keyboard break is in the middle of the room. I had no issues selecting audio format at all. I think this brings the full stage out here, and one of my very favourite songs live or otherwise. Burning down the house. Studio mix - guitars either side. Synth bass up front. Synth lead, just left. Live mix - aside from bvox seeming slightly louder, not all that different. High pitched synth noises getting some surround action Let's skip down the line a bit. Once in a lifetime Studio mix - same layout. Definitely guitars in the sides ..... Live mix - not much different. Bvox again seem louder and wider. The live mix may be slightly sharper? I don't know what anyone else is hearing, but this mix seems very good. There are differences between the studio and live 5.1 mixes..... the odd thing is just the quick check I'm doing here would suggest there are things about either mix that make it the one to pick. So it seems like a case of pick a different mix each time would be the ideal scenario.... I definitely have a surround mix. Although there aren't generally direct instruments behind us, there are definitely mixes to the sides, and I am getting a nice live mix that is drawing me into the mix...... Great bluray. I love it. It is musical and just a great bunch of fun. They looked like they love it as much as I do. The bluray I have is Second Sight 2ndbr4045
That's the same bluray I have. Switching between "studio" and "film" using the bluray interface didn't seem to make much difference. On the DVD it makes a big difference, especially on psychokiller. I also found the same difference on the bluray when I ripped it - there are two 5.1 mixes to choose from and one has Byrne in stereo with nothing in the center channel, while the other has him in center channel only. I think there is something wrong with the audio selection menu on our bluray. Either it doesn't work at all, or it is calling up the wrong mix - perhaps stereo instead of 5.1. I usually have my receiver set to AI, so it will mix a stereo signal to the back itself.
Here's a QuadrophonicQuad thread on Stop Making Sense. There are a few comments on the two mixes. A sentiment I would agree with: "....I find the studio mix pretty similar to the feature mix, mostly echo on the rears."
Perhaps, as some discs are prone to, selecting in flight doesn't work .... there were differences, though minimal. As for just echo in the rears, that just isn't what I heard at all. There is no chance of me having had it in 5 channel stereo either, because my audio is bluray player direct for surround, and my 5 channel stereo is on the receiver. It's a mystery....
I have no issues in selecting either mix with my blu-ray of Stop Making Sense, but there's not much difference between studio mix and feature film mix. I am aligned with Mark's listening experience in this case. I'm pretty sure the DVD has a different mix.
Just because I remember the waveforms being dramatically different, I listened to these one more time. At the risk of turning this into a QQ thread, both of the following are from the bluray (order of tracks from top to bottom) are FL, FR, SW, C, RL, RR): Film Mix Studio Mix The most obvious difference is the activity in the stereo channels and the center channel, and contrary to what I said before, that is just because of the guitar - the vocal track is in the center in both mixes, but the guitar is in stereo on the film mix, but only in the center on the studio mix. As you say, the drum track is mixed in stereo in both mixes (or maybe a little more to the right on the studio mix). I still think the ambience in the back is a smidge louder with the studio mix and I think if you squint at the waveforms for the rear channels between the audience noise at the beginning and the end it looks that way there too. So, here's my bottom line: The psychokiller guitar test is the way find out if your audio selection interface is working properly.
I'm not hearing anything going on in the rear speakers either. The mixes are different, no doubt, but none of these would classify as real surround mix for me.
I pretty much agree. My basic ratings for surround, especially for this thread are: 1) Stereo 2) Using the rear speakers for ambience 3) Using the rear speakers for more than just ambience I don't expect to hand out very many threes on this thread. I started with Home Invasion mostly because it is an exception. As for Stop Making Sense, I think the studio mix is a low grade 2. Some of the mixes I've given 2's to on the surround thread are far louder in the back, but still just echoing the front. "Heaven" does qualify as a 3 with either mix - but it's the only one. I'm working on Santana IV this week. It's also a low grade 2. I follow the same scheme on the other thread, except if things get too wild in the rears I start penalizing.
Sorry but I still don't hear anything of what you mention in your review of Stop Making Sense in the rear channels. An example of a 'real' surround mix for a live concert would be 'Eyes Wide Open' by King Crimson (the 2003 concert in Japan).
This is possibly my favorite concert film of all time. The only thing that might've competed with it were if they'd done ZooTV or Queen at Wembley properly on film, so Gabriel wins here. It's just breathtaking.
Are you referring to "Heaven" which has background vocals in the back (either mix) or the other tracks that have little (studio) or nothing (film) in the back? Anyway, I have three KC concerts that I will get around to, but I don't have that one. Maybe someone else can review Eyes Wide Open . Hell, I'll do a poll. Which KC concert should I do first (might be a week or two):
I wasn't referring to any song in particular, just the entire concert. I'll give another listen to Heaven in the coming days, but I don't remember much in the rear speakers apart from reverb.
Right, there's reverb - that's what I'm saying. I also think there's more reverb in the studio mix than the film mix. I think of accentuated reverb as a standard surround mixing technique.
Zimmer, Hans - Live in Prague. The short review by @thetman on the surround thread got my attention. A concert of movie soundtracks would have interested me more if it were Tangerine Dream of Danny Elfman. but the Gladiator soundtrack has Lisa Gerrard as a coauthor, so there's that. The other main selling point for me is that it has a Dolby Atmos mix, and I have a couple of ceiling speakers that need something to do. It turned out to be an excellent choice. As a synposis, Zimmer has a stage full of over 90 musicians comprised of a choir in the back, an orchestra and several drummers in the middle, and a collection of rock musicians and string soloists in front with himself. The music itself I would characterize as mostly classical with a few elements of rock thrown in. However, there are a few pieces that are more rock than classical that could be characterized as prog rock. It's all very good to fantastic. The audio, the video, and the surround are all top notch, plus Zimmer puts on a show. Since not all of the music is my cup of tea, there are parts that I am far more interested in rewatching and listening to than others: "Gladiator" Czarina Russell does a fine job of replacing Gerrard on vocals, but someone else has to hammer the dulcimer. The first segment "The Wheat" sounds like a Dead Can Dance song - and that's a very good thing. "Pirates of the Caribbean" This is largely a classical segment with lots of drums that features Tina Guo, an electric cellist. "Journey to the Line" - this one plus the next two are in sequence, all have Johnny Marr on guitar Also classical, great music accompanied by a fantastic lightshow. "The Electro Suite" Zimmer describes this a clarinet concerto, but I'd call it prog rock. Beside another light show, this one also has a raspy voice that comes out of the ceiling speakers. "The Dark Night Trilogy" Also rock heavy, but the orchestra is plenty busy too. The choir also gets in at the beginning, and there's a lightshow. Since the original review didn't include video, I'll make amends here. It's does a pretty good job of representing the content of the whole disc: My rating: Music – 3 mostly Sound quality – 3 Video presentation – 3 Video quality – 3 Surround – 3 Yeah, it's really good.
Santana IV Live At The House Of Blues Las Vegas Live Performance by Santana Recorded: March 21st, 2016 Released 2016 Director: Brad Fuss Executive-Producer – Carlos Santana, Don Maggi, Michael Vrionis Producer – Adam Fells, Brad Fuss, Christine Davis Regan, Michael Jensen, Paul 'Skip' Rickert* Supervised By – Matt Friedman, Rob Gill This release captures the long anticipated reunion of the classic late-sixties / early-seventies line-up of Santana. It was recorded on March 21st, 2016, a few weeks prior to the release of the Santana IV album. It includes several tracks from the new album plus classic hits from the band’s first three albums. Personnel Carlos Santana - Guitar, Vocals Neal Schon - Guitar, Vocals Gregg Rolie – Keyboards, Lead Vocals David K. Mathews – Keyboards Benny Rietveld – Bass Drums – Michael Shrieve Michael Carabello – Congas, Percussion, Backing Vocals Karl Perazzo – Timbales, Percussion, Vocals Tracklist Soul Sacrifice – Carlos Santana, David Brown (5), Gregg Rolie, Marcus Malone Jingo – Babatunde Olatunji Evil Ways – Clarence Henry Everybody`s Everything – Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, Michael Shrieve, Milton Brown (3), Tyrone Moss Shake It – Gregg Rolie, Karl Perazzo, Michael Carabello, Neal Schon Anywhere You Want To Go – Gregg Rolie Choo Choo – Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, Michael Carabello, Neal Schon, Igor Len* All Aboard – Carlos Santana Samba Pa Ti – Carlos Santana Batuka – Carlos Santana, David Brown (5), Jose Arias*, Michael Carabello, Michael Shrieve, Santana No One To Depend On – Coke Escovedo, Gregg Rolie, Michael Carabello Leave Me Alone – Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, Michael Shrieve Sueños – Benny Rietveld, Carlos Santana Caminando – Carlos Santana, Karl Perazzo, Michael Carabello, Neal Schon Blues Magic – Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, Neal Schon Echizo – Michael Shrieve, Neal Schon Come As You Are – Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, Karl Perazzo, Michael Carabello, Neal Schon Yambu – Carlos Santana, Karl Perazzo Black Magic Woman / Gypsy Queen – Gabor Szabo, Peter Green (2) Oye Como Va – Tito Puente I Feel The Earth Move – Carole King Love Makes The World Go Round – Carlos Santana, Nuru Kane, Thierry Fournel Freedom In Your Mind – Carlos Santana, Ken Okulolo* Toussaint L`Ouverture – Carlos Santana, David Brown (5), Gregg Rolie, Jose Arias*, Michael Carabello, Michael Shrieve The Concert Soul Sacrifice – From the s/t debut We can get some things out of the way quickly. The video and audio quality are both great. I also know from the track list that they are going to be playing some great music. So that leaves two other issues unresolved. First, how’s the surround? Second, and more importantly, can these old fogeys still play? In March 2016, original group members Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, and Michael Carabello were all 68, Michael Shrieve was 66, and Neil Schon was 62. As for surround, on Soul Sacrifice there is some reverb in the back (louder than on either of the mixes on Stop Making Sense) and next to nothing coming out of the center channel (unlike either of the mixes on Stop making Sense). Yes, they can still play pretty good. However, Soul Sacrifice features a drum solo by Michael Shrieve, and I have to say that part makes him look old. Jingo – From the s/t debut Same story on surround. I won’t say anything else about it unless something crops up. This is also an especially percussion heavy song. I’d say over half the energy coming from the three man percussion line up is from “the new guy” Karl Perazzo, who has been playing with Santana since 1991. Carlos in flawless, and Gregg Rolie can sing as well as ever. They both look like they are having a good time. Evil Ways – From the s/t debut Another fine performance. After the band is introduced, Neil Schon comes onto the stage for the first time. He joined the group for the third album. Santana and Schon start jamming, trading solos. Everybody's Everything – From Santana III Sounds great. Schon plays his solo without a hitch. Shake It – From Santana IV Sounds good to me. Unlike the first three albums, I don’t know this one like the back of my hand. Another flaming solo from Neil. Anywhere You Want To Go – From Santana IV One of my favorite songs From IV. Carlos and Neil take turns at lead. Karl Perazzo is good. Choo Choo / All Aboard – From Santana IV I don’t like the first song that much, but the dual guitar of All Aboard with Santana on the left and Schon on the right is nice. Samba Pa Ti – From Abraxas Back to the classics. Neil has left the stage, and Carlos is by himself again. Maybe he misses a note or two, but still beautiful. Batuka – From Santana III Neil comes back. Perazzo reaffirms that he is the lead drummer. Carlos and Neil colead guitarists again. Gonna spend the video here, it’s a twofer with No Tengo a Nadie: No One To Depend On – From Santana III They are all clicking. Well 6 out of 8 anyway. I’m sometimes not sure Carabello is really playing. Dave Mathews is almost always off screen; don’t know about him either. Rolie; you just don’t hear organ like that anymore. Great track. Leave Me Alone– From Santana IV Back to the new album. It’s OK, but just not the same. Sueños – From Santana IV A reworked version of Samba Pa Ti. Why? Caminando – From Santana IV Carlos advocates the use of mescaline, and then reinforces the suggestion with an awesome intro. Schon takes over after that. This sure sounds like Roadhouse Blues to me Blues Magic – From Santana IV This sounds like an early Journey song with Carlos along for the ride. The congas and timbales go silent. Echizo – From Santana IV They’re back. This sounds like classic Santana Come As You Are – From Santana IV More than a little calypso in this one. We get to see Dave Mathews play for what seems like the first time. Yambu – From Santana IV This one is has African roots- another of my favorites from the new album. Perazzo does lead vocals. Carlos shreds. Black Magic Woman / Gypsy Queen – From Abraxas Wonderful rendition. Rolie still sounds the same, Carlos can still play real good, and Schon gets a few licks in too. Oye Como Va – From Abraxas Also very good, but I don’t think Schon improves upon the original here. Love Makes The World Go Round – from Santana IV Encore time, Ronald Isley (Isley Brothers) joins the group to take over lead vocals. Soul song with a Latin beat. Sounds like maybe Isley is featured in the center channel a bit. Freedom In Your Mind – From Santana IV Latin song with a soul vocalist, with Isley in the center channel again. Both Neil and Carlos get turns to solo. Toussaint L'ouverture – From Santana III Isley leaves, and the classic band returns. Not their tightest performance of the night, but Carabello peps up. It’s a good finale. _____ The classic songs are all great. Some of the ones from the new album aren’t as good, but it’s a long concert – you can always skip them the second time through. It is disappointing that “Fillmore East” didn’t make the list of songs from the new album that they played. They can still play. Maybe not quite as good as ever, but they are still very good. However, it was just a rock concert with no visual additions. The surround mix was very basic – reverb/ambience in the back with little use of the center channel. Music – 3 Sound quality – 3 Video presentation – 2 Video quality – 3 Surround – 2
