Maybe this belongs in the Music Corner. It's more about sound though. I got a rare copy of Basia's The Sweetest Illusion on vinyl. I'm just a Basia mega fan and really wanted the vinyl version. The CD is reference quality sound and music. The LP put me back a few bucks from Japan. This album is far too long for a single 33rpm disc..so I thought. It's all on there. Nearly 30 minutes on side B. So what I noticed right away is the music is cut much lower in volume than a typical LP. Is this how it was done to fit it all on there? Soundwise, it's still quite good. No distortion on inner grooves or noticeable compression. Just needed to lean on the volume control quite a bit. If long LP's are cut a lower volumes like this, does it allow for longer running times with minimal sound degradation?
Heres a pretty simple primer of the subject. Degradation is certainly there primarily through signal-noise-ratio decrease. Pops and ticks stay the same, music gets quieter, s/n goes down. There’s also other tricks mastering engineers can use to squeeze material into a tight space, none of which are good for the signal. I know what you mean though, I’ve got a couple of “too long” records that sound good to me. If they’re on quiet vinyl the s/n issue can be somewhat overcome, and a competent tracking cart with play nice with the tight grooves. Still you’ll know what you have could have been even better if given more space.
Many of the longer LPs I own have liner note to tell you to "PLAY THIS ALBUM LOUD". The Pretenders album is like this. It's over 47 minutes long. Grooves aren't cut as deep, this narrows the groove since it's "V" shaped. Shallower means the top of the groove isn't as wide at the surface allowing more spiraling rotations to cut, but it also means it won't play a loud.
This music is from 1994? I doubt anyone is doing 30 minute sided LPs these days, hence the proliferation of 2 LP 33 rpm releases to accommodate CD era length albums. These became common from the mid 90s onwards. As you observe they are cut lower to squeeze in the grooves and hence are less dynamic. Generally inferior sounding. A number of mainly 90s LPs that were originally pressed on one disc have had reissues on double vinyl to improve sound. I recently bought a reissue of Little Earthquakes expanded over 4 sides. In spite of this the 30 minute a side vinyl records were not always inferior to the CD release and sometimes better sounding. Generally for best sound an LP should be around 20 minutes per side.
I have a recent re-pressing of a La Mont Young LP which is just shy of 40 mins per side. It all depends on the dynamics of the music.
butthole surfers just reissued this. roughly 27 minutes on a side and 29 on b side. it actually sounds very good, but yeah you have to crank it.
With careful mastering (and a good look-ahead groove pitch setup on the lathe), it is possible to get close to half an hour on a side without having to make too much of a sacrifice, provided the material is suitable. A number of classical albums do this, since there's a great deal more dynamic variation throughout the side than a pop release (and at the time many of these were cut, I suspect there was some expectation the listener would have a setup that could handle the higher demand such a disc would impose). There's still a limit, however, and even on the better examples of this 30 minutes would be pushing that - anything much above 25 minutes tends to shave the deadwax down quite a bit, so you either need a high tolerance for IGD or a setup that can handle those inner grooves. I do have a few examples of classical mastering (by RVG on Vox) that run over 30 minutes per side and sound bad throughout, demonstrating that some people weren't above doing it the wrong way.
Good question and there is probably no easy answer. Todd Rundgren released Initiation in 1975 and there was OVER 30 minutes per side (32 and 35 IIRC). The inner sleeve contained technical notes along the lines of the listener may have to turn up the volume a little more. Or even re-record the music to tape to increase levels. My systems handle this recording pretty well and it sounds good from beginning to end. Others will likely have differing opinions.
I have many baroque, classical guitar, and chamber recordings that run over 30 mins per side. They all work just fine, but I doubt something like Wagner would not.
I think the question is related to the 45rpm album technique that Nimbus in the UK developed in the late 70s/ early 80s. With it they were getting standard album length LPs cut at 45rpm aimed at the classical recording industry. I have a few where the method is applied to 'rock' and avant-garde music, which sound good. I've not noticed a significant drop in volume, but this factor was noted at the time, when I worked at a London company using that Nimbus 45rpm cutting an pressing service.
For those familiar, this Basia album is pretty high voltage (for what it is). Not exactly death metal but some hot tracks for sure. I think this is one instance where the CD beats it out. Not sorry about spending some $$$ on the vinyl though. It was only released in the Netherlands and Brazil. Never a US release.
Oddly, Solti's Siegfried on London/Decca has a couple sides well over 30 minutes. However, they are on a very short list of classical labels I would trust to push the envelope that far (EMI [but not U.S. Angel] and Philips would also be on that list, but neither RCA nor Columbia would be).
Oh that must be the inner sleave. It's been a long time since I looked at that one. Only have the CD. I saw them at the Capitol Theater in NJ shortly after that came out. That concert rocked.
I have a record which is something like 45 minutes on a side, but it was one of those budget Greatest Hits type things. Anyhow, on any analog medium (tape, disk, magnetic film, optical), the lower in level you record (or cut) the worse the signal to noise ratio will be. The noise floor is a constant, no matter the record level, and lower levels get closer to that noise floor.
