Looking for a DAC under €1K !

Do you really believe you will be able to hear and try out all the DAC models recommended here? I don't mean YouTube ... I mean live

If you can do that, I'll just say - WOW!

 

After few hours with the Draco I tell myself that it is even possible I cancel my D90's order.
Sonny Rollins undertones give chills !

 

I'm not kidding about the poor measurements of the Border Patrol, but if someone likes the sound then clearly the added distortion is not an issue for that listener.

If the Draco measures similarly to the Pegasus then you will have a much lower distortion device (compared to the BP).

Enjoy your search!

 

One thing to watch out for, if you have any reason to use Toslink or coax interfaces, is that Topping often doesn't do well with those, especially with older gear (tho people have reported similar problems with newer stuff as well). In my case, running a CD player via Toslink, at least every 20-40 seconds or so there was a very brief - subsecond - pause in whatever is playing, almost like a "skip" in a record but totally noiseless. I ended up returning the Topping (a D30 in my case).

 

Thanks !

I would like to have the BP on hand to compare.
I really think I prefer this Draco, it's much clearer but doesn't lack the holographic soundstage and "naturalness" of the BP (as I remember...).
The Su-8 tested with the same tracks (Brad Mehldau "Jacob's ladder" / Ella & Louis / a lot of Beck / Waltz for Debbie, etc...) is easily surpassed in several domains : space, density, natural.
The owner told me he had it since a month and never proceed the burn-in advised by the constructor (300 hours !!) and listened to it for nearly 100 hours.
Now I have to find an excuse no to give it back ;-)

ps : of course, my wife phoned me during that test, she was very surprised by the obvious quality of this Dac and asked "Darling, this Dac is so superior ! Do you have Mr Louis Armstrong on your knees ?"

 

I would probably do this regardless if I were looking for a DAC with a different presentation then the SU-8. All DACs do not sound the same, as evidenced by your experiences with the various R2R DACs you're trying, but I have a feeling the SU-8 and D90 sound 99% identical.

 

Tell the owner you have found links between their family and Putin and are thus impounding it in line with EU sanctions!



If you really like the Draco (and it ticks all your boxes with regard to features/connectivity/budget), you may want to save yourself the headache of looking further. While there will always be the risk that there is something better out there, the comparison process may take the shine off any new acquisition if you have to audition many DACs (many of which, as @Rolltide mentioned, could sound substantially similar).

 

It's done ! Good news : this Draco is available in France and is cheaper than the D90se ;-)

 

A question remains : why did I not try these R2R dacs before ?

 

I can't answer that, but I can say that not all R-2R DACs are alike. The modern (Denafrips, etc.) types using large numbers of precision resistors far outperform old chip based designs (which were the driving force behind the development of sigma-delta modulators).

 

If you like the Draco R2R, you probably won't like the Topping imho. Have tried and compared a few D/S dacs to my Ares but I always return to it. I just tried an RME ADI-2 dac for a few months but ultimately the Ares2 still does it for me.

 

I was afraid that it would be smoothered cause McIntosh & Harbeth isn't the most incisive duet.
Btw, do you listen with OS ? I find the NOS even more "natural" (sorry, I've 200 words...)

 

I prefer NOS most of the time now yes, like you say more natural sounding. From what I read the Pegasus would sound a bit more detailed and lighter (haven't read up on Draco) than Denafrips Ares2 and if Draco has the same house sound this might be the reason why it works well with your Mac/Harbeth setup.
Don't power it off but keep it on/ in standby all the time.

 

Did you find any audible difference after the burn-in period ? I don't understand which part of the circuit could benefit from this burn-in if it is done with no signal...
And it is already sounding very good to my ears.

 

Can't really remember, it's been +2 years. But the advice to keep it on/in standby is general practice with ladder dacs.

 

Ok, I'll let it burn ! Thanks !

 

This is why I have not already bought an RME AD??? I don't want a huge manual. It gets such good reviews I am tempted to get one and not get into tweeking it which would not be fun for me.

I have been playing albums, tapes and cds since I bought my first stereo 55 years ago. Turntable and reel to reel with an 8 track on the side. I never expected music to become so complex. One nearly needs a master's degree to navigate the digital world (said the Boomer).

As for dacs, I am moving from the US to Thailand ie 240 volt so I am starting over.
For that reason, I just sold a great dac, the PS Audio NuWave DSD that had no remote and no controls except the choice of inputs and that usually sensed automatically but occasionally I had to bump it. I used it with Tidal via USB and for an Audiolab 6000cd transport. I never felt the need for any controls. I miss it already.

I am looking for the best dac for this price range, maybe a little over $1 K, USD. Not Chinese.
Under consideration:
Schiit Bifrost
Schiit Gungnir
RME ADI
Cambridge as mentioned in this forum.
?

I don't know if spending nearly double would be a big benefit. For example Gumby/Gungnir at $1200 vs Bifrost 2 for $700. I know the law of diminishing returns, ie you pay double and get 10% better so to speak. This is my first real dilemma. If I get Bifrost2, will I always be coveting the Gumby?

I am looking at Schiit because I want to get a few non Chinese dacs for the new 240v systems in Thailand. No deed to debate that choice. It is just my preference and no point getting side tracked.

I do now have a Border Patrol already which they converted to 240 volt already for me. Good service from BP.

Now I would like to get 2 more dacs because I will have several places for music and I don't want to be moving gear around.

I have an older Chord Mojo which I had hoped would be good for portable but while it sounds good, it has ergonomic issues. It never gets used. First, like any mobile device is the constant charging.
Secondly, the micro usb is flimsy and constantly cuts out if you touch the dac while in use.
Nice to see that the new model now has a USB C, but I don't want to go that route this time.
The Chord Qutest is just too much over this price range.
I ended up using dongle dacs instead of the Moju for portable, eg: Dragonfly Cobalt and Resonnesence Herus.

 

Huge fan of my Audio-GD R2R-1.

 

Not sure how this “office system” is set up, but I know speaker set up and how the room reacts will have a big magnitude bigger effect on harshness and imaging, ie soundstage. DAC not so much, differences, if any, are minimal and most likely perceived only under very attentive scrutiny.
A DAC should the least of your worry, the last thing to consider if ever.

 

I have a Bifrost 2 and a Gungnir Multibit A1 (analog 1 version, Schiit did a silent update with a new and better analog section for the Gungnir that is the A2 version). The Gungnir is the better sounding DAC and if I had to decide between owning just the Bifrost 2 or the Gungnir in my system I'd pick the Gungnir. It is better in my system. Enough better to be worth the extra cost. The Gungnir has more resolution and fidelity, especially in the midrange, but also extends to the bass. More resolution and fidelity that allows me to hear more into the recording and the midrange sounds more full and with a deeper soundstage and more nuanced sound. My system allows me to hear and appreciate those differences. And those differences are important to me for what I listen for and the sound qualities I'm after. So yeah, the Gungnir is worth it. And the Yggdrasil would also be worth it above the Gungnir for the same reasons. I just haven't gone there yet.

I have a headphone system with four amps. Two amps are balanced XLR input, two are unbalanced RCA input. I have two DACs with both XLR and RCA outputs so I can have all four amps connected and be able to switch amps without needing to swap cables or use a switch box.

My amps are: Cavalli Liquid Fire (RCA), Cavalli Liquid Glass (RCA), Cavalli Monoprice Liquid Platinum (XLR), Cavalli Monoprice Liquid Gold X (XLR)
DACs: Bifrost 2, Gungnir Multibit A1
Headphones: Audeze LCD-2 Classic, Audeze LCD-X (2021/2022 version), sometimes the Sennheiser HD650, and occasionally my other dozen or so headphones

I mention the gear to give an idea of what level of gear makes the Gungnir a better choice over the Bifrost 2. But it's all headphone gear. And if you're not familiar with it what I'm about to say may not make much sense.

With my two more expensive amps I want to be listening to the Gungnir. They both have more resolution and fidelity than the others. And let me hear that the Gungnir is better and more desirable. My Liquid Platinum ($700) and Liquid Fire ($3000) are based on the same general hybrid design. The Liquid Platinum is actually an evolution of the hybrid design of the Liquid Fire. But the Liquid Fire is still has more fidelity than the Liquid Platinum. I consider the Liquid Platinum to be about 90% of the Liquid Fire. But in audiophile terms that last 10% is a doozy. And that last 10% makes the Gungnir more obviously worth the extra cost when I'm using the Liquid Fire amp.

The LCD-X is also a more resolving and more high fidelity headphone than the LCD-2 Classic. When I'm using the LCD-X I more want to listen to the Gungnir than the Bifrost 2. When I'm using the LCD-2 Classic I still notice the differences but don't care as much. With the Sennheiser HD650 I care even less. So how much I care about whether I'm listening to the Gungnir or the Bifrost 2 depends on the headphones I'm using. Along with which amp I'm using. The better gear makes the Gungnir more desirable.

I got the Bifrost 2 instead of another Gungnir or a used Yggdrasil because I wanted a good DAC in a smaller size that is more easily transportable. And the Bifrost 2 is that. I'm house sitting right now and have the Bifrost 2 with me and a smaller Cavalli amp. The Bifrost 2 is much more convenient to set up on an end table or small desk. And that's why I have it. If I didn't care about the transportable convenience I'd have gotten a Gungnir A2 or used Yggdrasil.

When I got the Bifrost 2 I thought it would be at a more similar level as my Gungnir. And that I'd be able to have both amps connected to all four amps and not have to swap cables. But it turns out that I do find the Gungnir to be noticeably better and want to be listening to the Gungnir when doing focused listening or evaluating the sound qualities of a recording and for better listening enjoyment. So I've been swapping cables to listen to the Gungnir more often than I thought I would be.

 

I will have to go for the Gumby. I plan to order a Ragnorak2 because I like integrated amps. I don't have great headphones but will get some. I use headphones for when I need to but prefer speakers. The Rag headphone amp is said to be good. I hope to ship the Penaudio Cenya speakers. If not practical I will have to start over. Maybe the new Buchardt.

Thanks for the recommendation. I have been wondering for a long time. I sold my PS Audio NuWaveDSD dac already. Cheers.

 

The original Ragnarok amp was my favorite Schiit amp for Audeze headphones and also very good with the Senn HD800. I haven't been able to hear a Ragnarok 2 yet, and it's a completely different topology. So I don't know how it compares. Every time I heard the original Ragnarok at headphone meets I liked it a lot. It made Audeze headphones and other planar magnetics sing and sound better than they ought to. And also did very well with the HD800. I sometimes regret not buying one because it would be a great solid state amp to pair with my Liquid Fire and Liquid Glass. The original Ragnarok was good enough that it would be well worth pairing it with as much Schiit multibit DAC as you can afford. Which would mean Gungnir or Yggdrasil. Every time I heard the original Ragnarok at meets it was paired with a Yggdrasil.

 

I have a Gumby in my main system. Works great. I upgraded the Gungnir from DS to Gumby about a year and a half ago. Glad I did. My headphone amp is an AGD Master9. Main cans are Elegia and Grado HF-2. The Gumby rocks the speakers as well.

 

I just saw a post by Jason over on head-fi about parts shortages affecting Gungnir. If you want one you better buy one from this production run or be on indefinite wait for chips.

Head-Fi post: Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up

That's because it doesn't have VCXOs anymore, only VCOs. We can't get them. There are no ship dates. From anyone. For any option.

People in backorder will be getting notices soon, but basically you can take one with VCO-only clock regeneration now (with an "L" serial number to indicate the different firmware), or wait indefinitely. It's not just VCOs. No more AD5781BRUZ are in the pipeline either, so Gungnir is going on indefinite hold after this run is gone.

Bonuses: It's $100 off, it's available now, and it sounds the same to us.
Negatives: It doesn't have VCXOs anymore (so maybe nervosa, but this is truly silly. At least IMO.)​

Fortunately I'm not shopping for a DAC or amp right now. I can wait a year or two for the supply chain to catch up before I look for an additional DAC. I'm in headphone shopping mode right now. And headphones haven't been affected by chip shortages or material shortages.

 

Thanks. I am moving overseas at the end of the year so I am actually shopping for early next year. So 7 months from now I will be setting up my new systems. That is most likely not long enough for the shortages of parts to end. I cannot look at used because I need 230 volt unit.