Looking for a vintage (japanese) direct drive

Bever - where's your head at today / at this moment? Ten bucks (or euros) says you've had a few different thoughts on which way to go, may have changed your mind at least once!!

That's expected though... I get the feeling you are enjoying the hunt and learning about these, which is to me half the battle. You might have the makings of a future TT junkie....

Some get into amps, some speakers, some TT's.... I am definitely deep into TT"s this go round... years ago it was amps... all good though. CHeers.

 

Hehe, my mind has been spinning with model numbers the last few days ! I know something about belt drive tt's, but DD's are a new breed to me. So I am trying to get a grip on it. I have a bit of a problem though, when I'm into something new, I want to go all the way .

Actually, I know of a KD-07 for sale around here (and cheap) but 1.I don't really like the styling and 2.besides looking kind of cool and being rare, I don't think it's that great performance wise.

 

I don't think Yamaha got mentioned here, any thoughts on them, especially the YP-D71 ? Coreless motor and apparently a rather good tonearm with easy vta setting....

 

@bever70, last year I had a chance to hear that model, or one that was very similar to it, in a shop. It sounded good and looked good. I have a later Yamaha with a coreless motor and skinny lower mass arm, but it's not something that's going to inspire you.

 

Any other Sansui models that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg and are readily available on the used market? Note: I dont need TOTL, but can settle for very close, or close enough

 

Sansui SR-636.

 

@mtbikenh
You're right ! Too much info in too little time does that.
The arm does look very similar to yours. A minor hassle would indeed be the lack of traditional cueing . If you want to dust off before play, you have to start table with arm in rest, dust off, stop the table, cue the arm at the beginning of the groove and start again.

 

Careful on old TTs. I would only buy refurbished as I did on my Luxman. Here is an interesting TT.
Denon DP-3000 | eBay

 

Yamaha YP-800 and 801. Nice and simple, adjustable VTA, a bit hard to find though.

 

That looks lovely.

 

Weekend coming up.....(tough) decisions to make .
The 2 main contenders are a JVC QL-A7 and a YAMAHA YP-D71...

Both have automatic shut off at the end of a record which I like (enabling me to drink and sleep while playing records ) and both are VTA-adjustable (the Yamaha being the easiest).

Pros and cons of both :

1. YAMAHA YP-D71

+ Coreless and slotlesss motor
+ a very nice tonearm (design by Micro Seiki?)
+ Comes with a Denon DL-110 cart (seller will mail me a microscope shot tomorrow to see it's condition)
+ The original bottomplate of this Yamaha model is 16mm mdf as opposed to the flimsy and vibration sensitive 3mm of the Jvc. Inside Plinth construction appears to better the Jvc's (pics of the inside of a similar YP-D71: Yamaha YP-D71 – ein wundervoller Dreher von 1978 | good-old-hifi ).
+ Apparently the Yamaha has pretty good (low impedance) original rca cables.
- No original headshell
- Dustcover has a small crack in one corner at the back (but otherwise the table and wood looks to be in very good condition)
- No service history

Some pics of the Yamaha:






2.JVC QL-A7

+ The plinth of this one has just been re-veneered with real walnut.
+ It has been measured/serviced
- The plinth is no big performer, especially because of the flimsy (3mm) bottom plate. Lots of modification threads to be found on this model (and other JVC's with the same design) to dampen that vibration sensitive plinth (claying etc.)
- No coreless motor (it uses the pp71 platform and not the pp81 or pp101), if this can be considered negative.
- about $200 more expensive than the Yamaha and that's the price without a cartridge (Yamaha comes with denon dl-110).

I will check out the JVC tomorrow morning. After seeing it I will decide if I like it or if I go with the YAMAHA instead.

Meanwhile, based on all this info what would you guys do? Any suggestions? Things I forgot to take into consideration?

Thanks!

 

Without having to see how the JVC looks, I‘d buy the Yamaha right away! The Denon cart is a good tracker if still in good condition, and the TT is looking good. Forget about the crack in the dust cover, you won‘t use it while the TT is on.

 

@bever70, that's a tough one.

A few things to consider:

1) Does either TT come with a guarantee of any kind?

2) If you did buy the Yamaha, do you have access to a local tech that can service it, if problems arise?

3) Can you negotiate the price of the JVC down a little?

4) Can you get the JVC guy to dampen the plinth with dynamat or a similar material?

FWIW my JVC is not damped internally, though I have thought about doing it. It really doesn't seem to be a problem and the low and moderate volumes I use the TT at, and I have it on a set of inexpensive industrial anti-vibration pads, which seems to help.

One thing I would check is the effective mass of the tonearms on each TT. The closer they are to medium mass (e.g. 12-15g) the easier time you will have making the widest array of cartridges work.

On my JVC (not as fancy as the QL-A7) the arm mass with stock headshell is 21g, so it requires a little bit of care to match with the right cartridge. I have found that there is some wiggle room when I checked the resonance with a test record, but some of the popular higher compliance cartridges out there today (e.g. 20cu +) are basically out for this TT.

The other thing with JVCs is that the arms are often a little shorter that say a Technics arm. The overhang is 48mm rather or 52mm (Technics). That means you can't use any old generic aftermarket headshell because the slots will be too short for a lot of cartridges. You have to find headshells with longer slots which are often more expensive. Also, carts with really long bodies (e.g. Nagaoka and some vintage carts) relative to where the tip of the stylus is can be a pain to install because you have to move the cart so far back that there is little room for the headshell leads. Same thing with Pioneer tables (49mm overhang).

 

@patient_ot
1. The JVC comes with a 2 month guarantee.

2. Yes, my dealer who also rewired my Thorens is a very knowledgeable/skilled technician.

3. I don't know about the price of the JVC, probably not much room for hasseling. I think it comes with a basic cart, so maybe I'll get the price a bit down if I tell him I don't need the cart.

4. I'll talk about the damping but I'm pretty handy at this so might prefer to tackle this myself if I go for the JVC. I also tuned the plinth of my Thorens td160.

I think yours is a bit of a different design and suffers less from that hollow plinth vibration problem (from what I found online). This seems to be specific for the larger hollow wood-bodied QL's.

Apart from looking the effective mass up on the web, is there a way to measure that weight ?

 

I can find a new replacement if it bothers me too much, so that would really be a non-issue apart from the fact that it will cost me a bit more money . Will take some photos of the JVC tomorrow and post those as well....

 

Not easily. Look up the owners manuals on VinylEngine. You'll have to create an account. The specs should be in there.

 

Well I found this about the jvc:
The JVC UA-5045 tonearm on the QL7 has an effective mass of about 14 grams (the original headshell weighs 10.5 grams.

Still searching for the yamaha (i found a post stating it is not mentioned in the owners manual on the vinyl engine)....
Though I find a lot of threads stating that a denon dl110 (or dl 103) would be a good match.
Edit: I found this on the yamaha arm (from the manual)
the arm specs are 242mm effective length, 15mm o/h; 15gm stylus tip equivalent mass

 

If both are in the same general area where you can go and listen to them, then that is what to do. Buying by mail is a huge risk with turntables. With used gear, condition is everything. There is no way to assess that other than pictures, which show aesthetics but not operation. It's a crap shoot. Of those two, I have only heard the Yamaha, which sounds very nice. The JVC looks nice also and if it's local, then you may have an opportunity to listen to it.
-Bill

 

I'm going to see (and hear) both tables. But the yamaha would be a 5 hour round trip! The Jvc a 2 hour round trip so I am going to see and hear that one tomorrow. Depending on the outcome of this I might or might not go and see the yamaha....if the Jvc doesn't really convince me I will go and see/hear the yamaha.

 

That's a good plan. 2 hours is an easy visit.
-Bill

 

Is that JVC figure with or without the headshell? They are known to show figures in their manuals for the arm and headshell separately.

Looks like Yamaha is 15g, probably including the headshell.

The Denon 103 and 110 are as different as chalk and cheese. 103 needs a heavier arm, and it's also LOMC so it needs a step up or high gain phono pre. The 110 is HOMC and on the higher side of medium compliance.

 

@bever70 , I'm looking at the JVC QL-A7 manual right now. The tonearm mass including stock headshell is 23.5. That's similar to my JVC, so I can tell give you some ideas for cartridges on that arm. You'll want to stay away from higher compliance carts like I said.

 

Don't confuse the "maximum cart weight w/headshell" measurement with Effective Mass. The QL-A7 is a medium to high-ish EM tonearm in the 14g range if I recall correctly. It is definitely not a 24g EM TT / tonearm. A lot of carts will work with the A7.

 

Bever70 --- good on you, you're moving fast. One question (which you may not like) --- but why does it have to be those two TT's, and now? Trust me, I realize the excitement and to turn the work into a result, especially on the first one.... all that being said, if you think you've found THE TT that you could be happy with for a long time ---- then strike!!

Nothing wrong with watching for a while too and considering your options... see what comes up moving forward. Also test the idea of having one shipped to open up your options.

Now, if you plan on buying multiple TT's and end up with 15+ like I have LOL, then all a moot point. But if you are looking for the ONE --- have you really spent the time to be sure --- or you just ready to strike??

PS - always good to have that voice in the other ear, many times forums can be great cheeleading to get you to jump but sometimes for those new to a discipline being patient is also a good strategy!