Looking for help with VPI 16.5

I have taken the plunge and bought a VPI 16.5 record cleaner. I ordered it on Sunday and it came yesterday with free shipping from Elusive Disc. I also went ahead and got the 45 kit and extra vacuum tubes for rinsing. I am waiting for my Disc Doctor fluid and brushes, which are on backorder, so in the meantime I'm playing around with the VPI fluid and brush and some junk discs.

I am trying to figure out just what the heck I'm doing. I understand the VPI fluid is probably not the best stuff out there, but I would expect some improvement from where I started. I'm just not hearing it.

So I'm looking for any assistance on the best way of cleaning my discs. I plan on starting with some 45's so I want to be comfortable before starting that project.

I have read the previous threads here over and over and everyone has said the rinse stage was critical. I have been rinsing twice with a dedicated rinse tube for the final cycle. I have to use the same VPI brush until the DD's arrive so I know I'm not really following things to the letter.

How hard can I press on the record? Do I move the brush back and forth, side to side, or just hold it and let the record spin underneath?

How much fluid do I use and how much distilled water in the rinsing cycles?

Am I expecting too much? What I've been hearing is lots of crackle where maybe I expected far less noise than I started with. I was able to remove a skip on one of the LP's I tried.

The discs I am experimenting on are of a mixed variety. A couple of the 45s had very large, visible scratches so I wasn't expecting much there. One 45 has a fuzziness to it and I thought maybe that would clear up. It didn't. None of the discs have serious dust or splotches.

Are there any websites that have pictures or video of the whole process?

Any help is greatly appreciated! I am really looking forward to all the projects I could do.

 

Are you using a Zerostat after the VPI 16.5? I found that the records can become highly charged. One I started using the Zerostat I stopped having problems.

 

No, I'm not using a Zerostat. My setup is in the basement and I have a low-level of static electricity.

 

I guess my technique is different than yours. I do not rinse my records after vacuuming off the cleaning fluid with the 16.5. I just give the record a good zap with the Zerostat and put it right on the TNT-III.

 

Press your brush down into the vinyl without any motion in your hand - let the machine do the moving. Make sure that the record is fully wet and that your brush is already coated with fluid as well.

The Zerostat is a necessary tool as many cleanings will result in static forming on your albums. This static will be picked up by your cartridge and contribute to the noise you hear in your LP playback.

Finally, make sure you thoroughly clean your stylus after playing each record. A dirty stylus (even though it appears to be clean) can often cause distorted noise as well.

You'll hear move improvement once you get your second brush and use it exclusively for the distiled water rinse cycle.

 

Rinsing twice, or even three times isn't necessarily a bad idea. That way, you know you're getting a thorough rinse. The Zerostat idea is very good. I actually use a carbon fiber brush for discharging static. Not only will it serve that purpose, but it also performs it's more obvious chore of removing the odd, loose dust particle just prior to playing a disc.

 

When using my VPI, I clean my the lps in a circular scrubbing manner with the supplied nylon brush as the record turns until I work up a little foam across the entire record surface. Aside from the VPI solution, I also use a home brewed concostion, in the way of isoprophyl alcohol, distilled water and dishwasher liquid soap.

While the VPI is not a miracle worker, overall I have been very pleased with the results. Of course the results will vary depending on the condition of the lp to start with. Enjoy.

 

I am happy to report that things have been going much better. I have received my Disc Doctor brushes and fluid and found that cleaning by hand and using the VPI for the rinse works best for me.

After quite a bit of practice, I tried cleaning my original All Things Must Pass album. I was positively blown away by how quiet it was.

I also picked up some stylus cleaner and a carbon fibre brush.


Thanks to all of you who have offered assistance!

 

Glad to hear it! Nothing can beat the Disc Doctor/vacuum machine method. Clean that stylus for every side of an LP and you'll be set.

 

Thanks

You know I have the VPI and the Disc Doc set and have never used either of them! The instrucions seem too confusing. I am gonna take the advice from here and give it a shot. Just to recap: you are cleaning by hand and rinsing with the machine then hitting it with the Milty?

I wonder if you guys just clean a record the one time or each time you listen? If you clean it just the once do you have some system so that you know that you have cleaned it? I thought of maybe putting a cleaned record in a poly bag but so many of my albums are already in them.

Something I have wondered about stylus cleaners as long as we're on the subject. Are you not in danger of contaminating the solution by constantly cleaning off the stylus then returning the soiled brush into the bottle?

Thanks for all the help.
Spin the black circle
Peace
Norm

 

<<Something I have wondered about stylus cleaners as long as we're on the subject. Are you not in danger of contaminating the solution by constantly cleaning off the stylus then returning the soiled brush into the bottle? >>

With the LAST products, the bottle has a little brush in it, which I use to apply the fluid to the little short bristled, black handled brush that comes along with it. The bristles on this brush are stiff, so I then CAREFULLY clean the stylus, always pulling towards the front of the cartridge. Thus far, thus good.

 

Re: Thanks

Norm,

I am cleaning the discs by hand using the DD brushes. I have a rubber mat that I put the disc on and I clean the disc in thirds as recommended. I use the VPI to vacuum off the fluid and for all the rinsing. This has produced the best results for me.

 

More cleaning questions

Ascot:
Thanks for the info. Wondering: Do you clean all your records? Even new ones? Do you clean them just the one time or before each play?
As for the mat, is it a specialty item of some sort?
Now that you have the process down, about how long do you figure it takes you to clean an LP? And finally (for now ) do you use that tilt drain tube thing on your VPI or does the fluid you vacuum up just eventually evaporate?

Thanks a lot man. I need to start using this stuff. I have a tidy investment in record cleaning stuff and everytime I come into my basement it laughs at me. I guess I could just practice on an old disc that I don't really care about. I seem to recall buying a spare cork like mat from Music Direct for the VPI in case the one that came with it gets soiled.

Cheers!
Norm

 

Norm,

The rubber mat is actually from an old turntable. I washed it off and have been using that for LPs with no problems. I have a nice counter space with lots of room for the machine, brushes, bottles, etc. and a place to put the mat down to clean.

I have just gotten into cleaning vinyl and I've only had my VPI for about a month. I have not cleaned anything other than the test discs more than once. I plan on cleaning a disc and then immediately recording it onto the computer for de-clicking and making a CD-R. I don't think you need to clean it each time you play it.

Time-wise, an LP takes me a few minutes. I scrub slowly and carefully to avoid damaging the label. I am doing a triple-rinse on the VPI for now, which might be excessive to some, but I do that in case I put too much cleaner on the disc. I can't see how an extra rinse would hurt anything.

Finally, that drain tube hasn't had to be used much. I do tilt the machine back when I'm done but I don't get much coming out of there. Maybe if you washed several discs at a time, there would be a lot of drainage.

Also, remember to wash off the brushes and rinse the tubes out with distilled water when you're done.

Have fun!

 

Cleaning mat

There was a great mat made in the '70s for cleaning records - I think it was from Milty in the UK. It was a large square mat with thousands of little rubber cones, the points of which touched the record.

The idea was any dirt on the side you were NOT cleaning was not pressed into the grooves. I used it all the time, and I thought it to be an essential part of my housekeeping gear. (I don't clean house much, but my records and stereo gear are immaculate! ).

I would have given my right arm for a record cleaning machine. There was a local record shop that had a Keith Monks machine, and if you bought a used record from them they would clean it for 25 cents. Ah - the days of real service.

Regards,
Geoff

 

I don't think it's excessive...that's precisely what I do. IMO, rinsing is the critical stage of the DD system. Be sure to add one drop of DD fluid to your final rinse as per the DD's recommendation. This facilitates better coverage of the rinse water.

Wait until you've played the cleaned LP thoroughly three times before you record for best results. Once the grooves have been totally cleaned of foreign particles, they exhibit a new geometry. Due to this new geometry, it will take a few plays for your stylus to reseat itself into a new path. Optimum playback won't occur until after these first few plays of the cleaned disc.

Right on. Take every measure possible at every juncture to avoid cross-contamination. I clean my brushes between each side of an LP and never let a dirty side touch a clean mat...dirty side to dirty mat, clean side to clean mat.

It's a good idea to clean off your intake pad on the VPI for each side of an LP, too. Alternatively, you could get multiple intake pads as I did. I've got four...one for the first vacuum, and one for each of the three rinses with each of the four being cleaned after contacting each side of an LP during their respective stages. Obsessive? I suppose, but the results are raised to the next level this way. Records won't get any cleaner than this.


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AC

 

Thanks for the tip! I don't remember seeing this in the instructions.

 

Sounds surprising at first, but I remember reading that somewhere from a forum member who had spoken directly to Duane Goldman, aka, the Disc Doctor. It was then confirmed by Tom Port, who apparently does the same.

I think the drop of fluid acts to break surface tension, much like photoflow would. However, the drop of DD fluid won't leave behind a film like photoflow, which is why that stuff should be avoided.

In fact, should you have any questions or concerns regarding Disc Doctor fluid or record cleaning in general, I hear Mr. Goldman is quite willing to help when contacted. It's all fairly self-explanatory, but it's nice to know he's accessible if needed.


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AC

 

Stan the Man and Doctor Duane



Stolen from Enjoy the Music's excellent pictorial on the CES. This is on page 3.

Regards,
Geoff

 

I wish the Doctor had something that would clean away a 10K boost.


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AC