LOTR director Peter Jackson restores WWI footage for new documentary, "They Shall Not Grow Old."*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Matt W., Oct 5, 2018.

  1. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    World War II fatality statistics vary, with estimates of total deaths ranging from 70 million to 85 million.Deaths directly caused by the war military and civilians killed are estimated at 50–56 million people, there were an additional estimated 19 to 28 million deaths fromwar-related disease and famine.

    As you say, it might have been for a short period of time but over many more years, there were 58,220 American deaths in the Vietnam War.

    No doubt, the American's more than did their part, in a war that was not their own (as is often the case).
     
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  2. carrick doone

    carrick doone Whhhuuuutttt????

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    What an amazing document. I've seen a similar one of the city I live in. I know it's almost heretical to say on this forum but I would love to see this video now coloured appropriate to the time. They are 80% there already.
     
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  3. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    There's one of a cable car ride through Victoria and Vancouver streets in 1907 ... best version I could find is this one...
     
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  4. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    The statistics are rough for American casualties:

    WWI: 116,516 deaths
    WWII: 416,900 deaths
    Vietnam War: 58,220 deaths

    But people forget the Civil War...

    Civil War: 620,000 deaths

    Far more Americans died in the Civil War than in all other wars combined. (That we know of.) And there's nothing but still photos for that one. The Ken Burns documentary is a pretty good record of what happened and tells a good chunk of the story.
     
  5. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    War Of Independence?
     
  6. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I think about 25,000 deaths, but hard evidence is tough for something that happened over 240 years ago.
     
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  7. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    British must have lost a few.

    Aside ..Interestingly Mel Gibson character in The Patriot fought against the English, also in Braveheart his historical figure character William Wallace fought against the English.
     
  8. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yeah, if you start adding up the body count on both sides, the numbers quickly spiral out of control. It's said there were 27,000,000 (twenty-seven million!) Russian deaths during WWII, and they mentioned this several times in the recent TV series The Americans. The characters were desperate to avoid another conflict like that, and this kind of thing drove the series all the way to the final episode. So there were far worse events on Earth than WWI... not that WWI was a picnic.

    They say that as many as 138,000,000 indigenous people (i.e. "Indians") may have been killed during the 300+ year colonization of America, so you could look at that as war casualties as well. The numbers are very sobering and horrifying to look at...

    List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll - Wikipedia
     
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  9. carrick doone

    carrick doone Whhhuuuutttt????

    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    That's the one I've seen. They play it in the BC Museum and the Vancouver Museum. I watch and do the same thing I do in movies filmed in Vancouver, pick out the location.

    When I watch this type of video I think to myself that not a single person in those frames is alive today. If they were walking around they would be at the earliest, 3 years old. Most of who we see are adults. Same for the film we are supposed to be disucssing. Not a single person is likely to be alive yet we watch them as if they are. I know that's an obvious comment but it represents a shift in our perceptions of the past that has only happened in the last 120 years. We can keep someone alive in our memories with moving pictures.
     
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  10. Ma Kelly

    Ma Kelly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol
    Interestingly (if that's the right word for something pretty grim), a higher proportion of the population of Britain died during the English Civil War than compared to the First World War and yet WW1 has the reputation of being this massively destructive war that wiped out an entire generation over here. More recent history though I guess.
     
  11. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    It's a shame he isn't combining his work on Let it Be with this film. He could use Let it Be as the soundtrack for this film and call it something like "All this and World War I".
     
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  12. NickCarraway

    NickCarraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gastonia, NC
    Well, you know what Hemingway said about any man's death...

    To me WWI is most significant in demonstrating how mutual-defense agreements can escalate a regional dispute into a worldwide conflagration.
     
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  13. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Maybe, but the US intervention in WWII stopped the Germans from taking over Europe, Russia and then maybe the world.
     
  14. NickCarraway

    NickCarraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gastonia, NC
    The Nazi war machine wasn't as formidable as Hollywood and revisionists would have you believe. 119 of the 135 divisions used in the westward Blitzkrieg were non-mechanized, i.e. they traveled by horse or by foot. The Panzer Tiger was a formidable tank, but only 1300 were ever built (by comparison, the US built almost 50,000 Shermans). The Tiger was also a gas-guzzler, and Germany's lack of fuel was a prime driver in Hitler's decision to invade the USSR to capture natural resources. (Ditto Rommel's attempt to capture the Suez Canal and move into the oil-producing areas of the Middle East, thwarted by Montgomery at El Alamein). Of course the Germans - who invaded in June - failed to capture either Moscow or Stalingrad, and left their rear guard at the latter vulnerable to attack. The Russkies trapped them and the Germans lost a half-million troops to death or capture. The Russian defeats were a gut-punch to German morale, and were followed up by endless bombing raids coordinated between Roosevelt and Churchill.

    Also think about this: why was D-Day even possible? Because Germany was never formidable enough to cross the English Channel. Germany repelled the Dieppe Raid, but couldn't take the next step.
     
  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    So the US was a big help.

    The US was also funding the Russians, so as not to become involved in the war.

    And, as you say...

    It is understandable, that Germany did not have a big navy, but the did build a lot of U-Boats that caused plenty of damage, until we figured out how to neutralize them.

    Germany was ahead of anyone else in the world with rocket technology. Left unchecked, they would have done some serious damage to England, without having to invade.

    For one single country, they did a lot of damage. It took the remainder of Europe, Russia and the United States to put a stop to them.
     
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  16. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Victoria, Canada
    I imagine that shift in consciousness happened early for many after the deaths of Valentino and Olive Thomas, silent stars, where people could see them alive and moving knowing they were neither! Or perhaps even earlier with a bit of film of Queen Victoria. I was looking at a film shot in Leeds at a fair in 1902 and thinking how my great grandparents could well have been there somewhere, or at a time the camera wasn't. It's as much a trip as the first photo of planet Earth in whole taken from outer space in it's way... noticing people in the background going about a day at a fair in the back of a Fatty Arbuckle and Buster Keaton film made on location was probably the actual moment of shift for me, suddenly imagining all the 'old' cars as new and the sun as warm, the sounds and scents as full... and also watching a Jean Harlow movie after reading some magazine article about her death, or even seeing the photo of the Dean's daughters in the garden at Oxford with croquet mallets the day the photographer met the famous Alice among them. We can no longer say the past was not when we have proof it was and as they say, seeing is believing.
     
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  17. NickCarraway

    NickCarraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gastonia, NC
    I won't deny that US entry into the European theater accelerated the end of WWII, but most sanguine observers point to the retreats from Moscow and Stalingrad as the turning points from which it was certain the Germany could not recover.

    To get back to the topic of this thread, US engagement in WWI was entirely unnecessary - a case of Wilson "being born on third base and claiming he hit a triple" so that he could influence the terms of the armistice despite entirely repudiating his campaign slogan "He Kept Us Out Of War".
     
  18. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Excellent analysis, but the part you left out was that the US was supplying our allies, and especially Russia, which was absolutely essential. Look at this quote from General Zhukov:

    "Now they say that the allies never helped us, but it can't be denied that the Americans gave us so many goods without which we wouldn't have been able to form our reserves and continue the war. We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. We didn’t have anything to charge our rifle cartridges with. The Americans really saved us with their gunpowder and explosives. And how much sheet steel they gave us! How could we have produced our tanks without American steel? But now they make it seem as if we had an abundance of all that. Without American trucks we wouldn’t have had anything to pull our artillery with."

    I am confident that without Lend-Lease, Europe would have been lost. Interesting statistic: By the end of the war the U.S. was producing enough war goods to supply ourselves, all of our allies AND all of our enemies. We chose not to do the last one.


    There are a lot of "what if" scenarios. What if Hitler had not stopped the Wehrmacht at Dunkirk? What if Hitler was not determined to attack Russia and stayed with conquering England? What if the Russian winter had not stopped the Germans in 1941? What if Hitler had heeded his generals and let them leave Stalingrad rather than being trapped? What if Hitler had thrown the material Rommel wanted to Afrika Korps for Rommel to drive through the middle east and into the underbelly of Russia. What if the German scientists had not purposely delayed developing the atomic bomb so Hitler could not have it?

    But once the United States entered the war, and Russia remained in the east, Germany was doomed. Perhaps if the Germans had finished Russia in 1941-42 they would have had a good chance to hold fortress Europe, by focusing the entire German army in France against us.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Since when do elected officials stick to their campaign slogan's?
     
  20. NickCarraway

    NickCarraway Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gastonia, NC
    Lend-Lease is quite a bit different than sending 213,000 young men to their deaths. Trucks and gunpowder and sheet steel can be delivered without putting boots on the ground.

    Certainly there are a lot of "what if" scenarios. All your questions deal with decisions made by the Germans (btw Germany invaded Russia in '42, not '41). I am solely concerned with the US decision to actively engage militarily in the European conflict. The European Axis attempted to advance on three fronts. It was repelled decisively in the USSR. It was repelled decisively in the Middle East. Its failure to cross the channel proves that it had a tenuous hold on its Westward expansion. Direct US engagement accelerated the inevitable; it did not produce the inevitable. And the cost of that acceleration was borne by US families. We didn't "save the world". We didn't even save ourselves. We simply hit fast-forward to save Europe more quickly.
     
  21. hbbfam

    hbbfam Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chandler,AZ
    I had forgotten about this, but see its now available on Amazon Prime.
     
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  22. jjh1959

    jjh1959 Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Charles, MO
    Excuse me??? Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941.
     
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  23. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Yeah, but they were still invading in 1942! :D
     
  24. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    And pushed within 19 miles of Moscow by November 18th of 1941. The fall rains slowed them down. Then the Russian winter stopped them. Also, instead of Japan attacking Russia from the east (which was the German strategy), they went for the South Pacific instead. This allowed crack Russian troops to be moved west against Germany.

    If there is one just war in U.S. history it is WWII. We were fighting against true evil in the Nazis. We did not join militarily until we were sneak attacked. It is questionable at best that the Allies could have won without us sending troops to Africa and Europe.

    I view WWII as the single greatest moment in US history. The country for one short time was united as one, and for a just cause.
     
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  25. jrice

    jrice Forum Resident

    Location:
    Halifax, NS Canada
    Has anyone in North America seen a domestic DVD or Blu-ray in any retailer? It was supposedly released on DVD in April and Blu-ray on May 7, but I haven't seen it in Walmart or Sunrise (Canada) and Amazon Canada only seems to have marketplace sellers with the UK version.

    BTW, I am aware that the UK Blu-ray is all region and I could easily order it, but I would prefer to purchase locally and it seems odd that I can't find it. Would have thought it would be everywhere.
     
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