Low cartridge VTA adjustment

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Charile, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Charile

    Charile Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    taiwan
    Hello everyone.
    My cartridge is too low and the Tonerarm VTA has been turned down to the lowest level.
    But it is still not parallel, Considering replace the turntable mat or add a headshell spacers.
    When crossing the Groove guard, the music will usually be delayed for a few seconds before playing.
    After replace the cartridge, it jumps straight to the music very violently,
    I am worried that the stylus will be damaged. I don't know if it's because the tonearm is not parallel.
    According to the picture, the error should be within 3mm, so should I replace the 6mm mat or add a 3mm spacer?
    Please recommend good options, thanks
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
  2. scottys

    scottys Here I am, you pod bastards!

    Location:
    Prescott, AZ
    I'd try some spacers or a mat - or some records under the current mat that you don't care for as a quick test to see if it helps. Edit: or make a temp mat out of some cardboard or other material.

    Spacers would be easier - but looks like you would need a bunch.
     
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  3. Charile

    Charile Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    taiwan
    [​IMG]
    Add mat height can work.
    if add cartridge spacers will it affect the sound quality?Do I need to increase the length of the cartridge screws?
     
  4. scottys

    scottys Here I am, you pod bastards!

    Location:
    Prescott, AZ
    No it shouldn't affect sound - it will add some mass. Yes - you would definitely need longer screws - I bought a kit from ebay with tons of cartridge screws, nuts and washers for not much over 8 bucks. Nice to have in situations involving a new cart.
     
    Charile likes this.
  5. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    All your troubles comes from the aftermarket headshell, it is clear from the pictures. Use the Technics one and start from there.
     
  6. Charile

    Charile Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    taiwan
    Maybe you are right bro, but my cartridge is 16mm, according to the manual there is also a 1mm error
     
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  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    use the stock headshell.
     
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  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    yes, there is an error using the stock mat (3mm thick). i use the herbies 4mm mat and it fixes that issue.
    since the OP's cartridge is also 16mm he may need a thicker mat in addition to the stock headshell
     
    Charile likes this.
  9. mkane

    mkane Strictly Analog

    Location:
    Auburn CA
    Technics spindle is only so tall.
     
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  10. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    I think that DS headshell is probably far better than the stock one, machined from a duraluminum billet versus an aluminum casting, and with that solid connector interface, I'd definitely want to keep it in place and not use shims with the Phasemation cartridge. It also gets the stylus tip a little closer to the bearing centerline, so that can be good, there are kind of two thoughts on that, either get stylus near centerline for minimal alignment change with vertical travel, or get top of cartridge at centerline for minimal rotational torque on the bearings.

    Which means you are stuck with increasing the mat thickness. Sometimes the VTA will dial below zero, so make sure it is all the way down too. Obviously you will need some extra thickness on the platter, likely close to the 3mm you mention. I'm not a big fan of the soft rubber mats they normally use on most of the DD tables, and I just recently got a Hanenite rubber (HANENITE | 内外ゴム株式会社 ) mat for my Micro Seiki DD-40 table, it is the Ultima THT-291 from Tokyo Bouon (ウルティマ ターンテーブルマット THT-291 ). It is 4mm thick x 291mm diameter, and weighs 330g. I ordered it from Amazon Japan. May want to look at something like that for the record interface, could have the stock mat below it, or maybe get a thinner one.

    Anyway, depends on how much spindle length you have, I think they are a little short of the G with the brass plate on the platter, so don't know if you have an extra 3 or 4 mm to spare.



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
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  11. Charile

    Charile Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    taiwan
    Yes i think i'll buy a higher height mat, I don't want to re-install the cartridge again, it's a good solution
     
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  12. Charile

    Charile Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    taiwan
    Nice mat.
    Thank davey, I think I'll look for a turntable mat around 6mm
     
  13. Charile

    Charile Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    taiwan
    [​IMG]
    10mm+3mm
     
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  14. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    doubtful the DS audio headshell is machined from a solid despite what they claim. no way thay would waste so much material in the process and the radii are too round and smooth to be machined. most likely investment cast, which is not a bad thing but the stiffness vs mass is not optimized and it weighs over 3gm more than stock.
    people underestimate the stock hesdshell but it appears quite well optimized for stiffness and mass in the shape even if designed in the days prior to CAE finite element analysis.
    also soldered lead wires might be a good thing if the lead wires complement the sound, a crapshoot because they matter. better not break a connector or have poor fitting cartridge pins either.
    it looks nice but at $450 thanks but no thanks.
     
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  15. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I've added 4mm on top of the stock mat (actually underneath it) with no ill effect (this is a GR, considering the brass plate on the G it might be different), I can even use the KAB clamp on the spindle still if I want.

    That DL headshell looks too good to change up, so a little platter padding is definitely in order.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  16. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    I agree with you 110%. Technics has a first rate history about turntable making, very few brands can compete. This includes headshells.
     
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  17. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    The stock HS is excellent for sure, but that DL headshell improves the solidity of connection with the arm and with that there is some audible improvement.
    Since that HS is already in play it makes no sense to replace it with the stock one and still possibly be a mm off with VTA.
     
    Charile likes this.
  18. scottys

    scottys Here I am, you pod bastards!

    Location:
    Prescott, AZ
    I've used all manner of headshells with the Technics. My best one $$ is the Sumiko (wide range of adjustment perfect for the DL103) - but mostly stock ones and some KAB copies that you can get at a great price - no discernible difference in sound that I've noticed (other than the cart) - just excellent convenience in cartridge swapping.

    I would like to see if the stock one helps with the VTA - I have my doubts but would satisfy some curiosity.

    Edit:

    Found this picture - which suggests it could certainly help:
    Taken from Source: Having trouble setting the VTA on my SL-1200 MK5.- Vinyl Engine

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
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  19. B. Scarpia

    B. Scarpia WatchingYouWatchingMe

    Location:
    WNC
    I had the same issue with my table/cartridge and an additional need to add weight to the 4 gram ZYX. I solved it with a piece of 1/8" aluminum drilled and sized that with the longer screws gave me 4 more grams and just the right height for correct VTA.

    You may need a lighter metal or different size to get the weight right.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Jimi Floyd

    Jimi Floyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pisa, Italy
    Exactly what I thought. Aftermarket headshells maybe manufactured with NASA technologies still being millimeters off basic standard geometry.
     
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  21. Davey

    Davey NP: Portishead ~ Portishead (1997)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Why would they lie about something like that, doesn't make sense. And reports around here and elsewhere have said that it sounds much better than the stock headshell, which I have no reason to doubt based on the design. And I know the solid connection to the tonearm results in better sound in my own system, at least for me. Always good to be skeptical, though :)


    [​IMG]
     
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  22. scottys

    scottys Here I am, you pod bastards!

    Location:
    Prescott, AZ
    One headshell to rule them all!
     
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  23. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    If you want a thicker mat, there's always the old school 6mm Tech mats though they are getting harder to find. Personally I use a 5mm mat from Oyaide. Many options on the market. I also think headshell spacers are fine - there are many options for those too and lots of different materials to choose from.
     
    Charile likes this.
  24. Technocentral

    Technocentral Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I've a load of spacers I got off Ebay, great for this type of thing from 0.5mm to 2mm.
     
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  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    wow. great detective work. no wonder they are $450, they waste 60% of the material.
     
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