LS3/5a buys LS3/5a's

My buddy Noel at Skylan Stand and I have been saying that for fifteen years.

 

Noel is a great guy. I bought my stands for the first set of P3's I had from him. They were great. I do think that my Target MR stands perform better with the Harbeth P3's.

 

Maybe not so confusing. I disagreed with the review because my experiences with Chinese-made knock-offs have been dismal. So I dislike the vast majority of cheaply priced knock-offs from China, Indonesia, and India. I find them unsophisticated, coarse, poorly executed, full of *really* cheap parts, and unpleasant sounding. But I haven’t heard the Sound Artist stuff specifically. So the right thing to do is to get a taste. Import duties, harmonized sales tax (HST), a brokerage fee, and the dollar conversion will land the little boxes on my doorstep in Toronto at ~CAN$1,045.

So when anyone talks about a so-called great deal for US$600, shipped, it doesn’t always work out that way in countries other than the U.S. The knock-off, unlicensed, alleged LS3/5A, in their terribly made cabinets from Sound Artist had better be very good for CAN$1,045. The notably higher landed price in Canada, the UK, France, Germany and elsewhere not-in-the-U.S. is the main reason that U.S. audio consumers have to give their heads a shake and recognize that they’re being targeted by Chinese knock-off companies. The U.S. remains a huge consumer market fror the PRC, COVID-19 or no COVID-19, economic recession or boom, and even considering the current administration’s trade contretemps.

The reviewers of these products quickly skip over the warranty elephant in the room. They should not do that. Shipping something back to the Chinese factory can be an exercise in significant expense and frustration, not to mention a frequent English-as-a-third-language communication barrier. Sometimes things work out favourably, most often not. The likelihood of such cheaply made products screwing up is high enough for the warranty service issue to be a major concern.

I could add that all of the reviewers make statements like, “...for a $600 speaker it’s really good.” That’s the general quote. It does not mean that it’s a thousand or two thousand or three thousand dollar speaker value. It’s simply wishful thinking to believe otherwise. We shouldn’t ignore that any more than we should ignore the glaring warranty service issue or the cheap parts issue.

It’s easy to click & buy online.

 

Wouldn’t it be unusual if a manufacturer didn’t target a specific market?

 

The Asipilin 15 ohm LS3/5A is much more up my alley. The crossover with its 3 autotransformers looks decent.

This is one I would not mind spending $600 for...

US $5913.0 |LS3 \ 5A Speaker (DIY) 15 ohm version|speaker screen|diy snowspeaker - AliExpress

 

$5,913??!!! I'm presuming a misplaced decimal point ...

 

It's likely meant to be in yuan, which would come out to $850 or so.

 

I watched the entire review posted and he genuinely seems to like them for his particular situation of desktop listening.
The fundamental issue that rises from this product is that Chinese manufacturers don't have the confidence to try and market their products in any other way than by trying to con buyers with tags associated with products that their own products have no link with other than dimensions and number of drivers. How does this mdf box with 2 unknown drivers and unknown x-over bear any resemblance to a BBC licensed design other than the manufacturers desire to covert some sort of twisted link to a product he thinks will increase his sales?
Rather than say, "hey we make a pretty good sounding speaker for $600 and you should have a listen to it", they have to say" this is our attempt at a copy of a speaker that we don't want to license or pay royalties for but we are so proud that we can produce for such a cheap price and you can fall over backwards in amazement because we are so clever".

 

Alright. I personally wouldn't disagree with a review of a speaker I've never listened to. Perhaps all of the Chinese LS3/5A copies have sucked up till now. The review is suggesting this one is better. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. Like you said, the right thing to do is listen, and then I'd say an opinion can be formed. Or, in this case likely, it will be confirmed.

I wouldn't buy a pair, for the reasons I gave earlier. And if I felt strongly against what the Chinese are doing here (and I kind of do, evidently not as strong as some though), I wouldn't reward them with a sale.

 

Does Falcon still let you buy the parts to assemble your own? They have a complete kit that is "inspired by" the Falcon retail version they make but it doesn't use the same drivers.

 

I think they sold remanufactured versions of the original drivers and crossover separately but I haven't looked for a while. - They sell birch ply cabinets as well as the proper drivers and crossover so should be possible to recreate your own for about half the cost of the built ones.

 

Your question leaves out the part about cheap knock-offs, which is basically the most important part. That was the matter I raised.

Plus, Naim, Wharfedale, Harbeth, Luxman, Spendor, KEF, Soundsmith, Ortofon, Rega, VPI, Rowland, AR, Belles, Devialet, Cyrus, Classe, Simaudio, Pass, D'Agostino, Zyx, Transfiguration, Technics, Acoustic Signature, Pro-ject, Kuzma, Marantz, Yamaha, MyTek, Wilson, Wilson-Benesch, Audiovector, Linn, and dozens and dozens and dozens of other first-rank audio companies don't knock-off cheap copies of each others products. So what on earth are you talking about?

All such first-rank companies target various demographics for sure. The companies use marketing material to attract a variety of buyers. The companies produce components of good quality at various price points to address consumers at a variety of budget points. But those companies don't knock-off each other's products. They don't assemble cheap parts piles to deliberately rip-off what are normally licensed designs that cost a lot more money (because the real product designs have sufficient value to be licensable), thereafter dumping a cheaply made, poorly assembled piece of junk on the market.

That last bit is done because, in the U.S. as elsewhere, there are lots and lots of audiophiles who hope and wish that a $600 quasi-clone made of wide-spec'd cheap parts and a terrible cabinet (that would be rejected as amateur work anywhere else) will somehow be close to the real thing. For a while, after the product arrives, it sounds pretty good just like all new products full of the anticipation surging in the audiophile's brain. Then, reality sets in and the average-ness or poorness asserts itself, hopefully along with the notion that saving money just a bit longer (or a lot longer) in order to have enough to audition and buy the real thing is a smarter economic move, a smarter music enjoyment move, and a vastly better long-term investment move.

Too bad, the six hundred bucks is gone by then, transferred into the pocket of a stranger very far away in return for little bits of junk that look a lot like an LS3/5A, but that aren't really an LS3/5A. Then some of those ripped-off audiophiles express all manner of opinions about how the "LS3/5A hyped is just a bunch of BS." Problem is, they've still not heard a real LS3/5A. They only think they have. The same self-delusion that led them to convince themselves that the cheap quasi-clone they bought might be as good as the real thing also convinces them that it was the real thing and LS3/5A speakers are nonsense. What a convoluted bunch of nonsense, and all in pursuit of cheaper and cheaper prices. It's a race to the bottom of the quality ladder for far too many audiophiles on a budget.

Many of the same audiophiles who jump on $600 LS3/5A and other cheap Chinese knock-offs purchased online without an audition, whine and mewl about the dramatic reduction over the past eighteen years in the number of domestic U.S. and Canadian retailers. Yet, they don't tie in their own actions as a contributing factor to that reduction.

 

So why buy a pair then? Just to say you confirmed what you already knew to people on an Internet forum?

I think you are pretty much bang on with your post above. You've got enough on your side to support your opinion without sending more money to people you believe are acting unethically, which only further supports them.

 

Excellent point and I couldn't agree more. The main difference between our respective audio component pursuits is that I'm passionate about testing as many claims as possible, listening to as many different components as possible, investigating as many claims about products as possible, and helping to entertain a couple of music listening groups as much as possible. As long as the spare cash exists to check out this sort of stuff, I'll continue to do it.

I also just ordered a couple of Chinese integrated amps (a US$500 EL34 and a US$825 KT88) to find out what they're all about.

Chinese audio companies want market share in the massive and relatively affluent U.S./Canada and western European consumer markets. The companies are doing what all newcomers do. They're entering with low priced products that have slim or completely non-existent profit margins. The difference in the 21st century is that the Chinese companies are reaching in from afar and without any of the traditional costs that were shouldered (and continue to be shouldered) by first-rank audio companies - no national distributors to support with inventory, no retailers to support, no repairs parts inventory on-hand, tech support by email only (and only in English and Mandarin - no French, German, Spanish, Italian, etc., language support except through the often hilariously frustrating Google translate).

That kind of competition sucks for a significant percentage of audiophiles. Plus, our domestic western retailers are already having a very hard time.

When more Chinese audio companies start producing more high quality products (e.g., like Line Magnetic amps and integrated amps that are fully supported and priced to compete directly and fairly with the other high quality western products to which they're rightly compared), I'll be far less critical of the majority of them. Until then, things like the Sound Artist speakers are going to be scrutinized by people like me with a hard and unforgiving critical eye. To do that, I have to purchase the products.

 

Why? Because I've got the budget specifically for this sort of thing. Most important, and as I've repeatedly posted over the years, an audition tells the tale. I wouldn't be much of a product analyst and my assessments of products can't be reliable or trustworthy unless I've checked out the actual product. I should add that there are people who have nothing to do with this forum who are also interested in my test and assessment of the speaker. Frankly, I wouldn't spend my money just for the boys and girls on SHF. Sorry.

And . . . I could be wrong about this particular product that has garnered so much attention recently. Plus, it's fun.

The only way to know for sure is to listen. The way to know definitively is to use my speaker switch box to set up some socially distanced blind listening. Unlike some other reviewers too, I've got my own Falcon and Harbeth P3ES-2, and access to Harbeth P3ESR, Audio Space, Rogers, and Graham LS3/5A models to compare.

 

@Agitater what are your favourites from that list- which is pretty comprehensive!

 

It's refreshing to hear someone who is not in the retail or wholesale business say this. When I remind the whiners about why there are no Hi-Fi shops near them anymore, they try and turn the argument back on me as if I had anything to do with it. Then they continue to buy junk on-line. It's sad to watch.

What I didn't see you mention in response to targeting the US is that China business is Chinese government subsidized. We can't even get another f'ing stimulus check from our government. The Chinese to US economy is a false economy, rigged by the Chinese, with the cooperation of the CEO's and boards of directors of large corporations against the US citizens and their employees. While I support your effort to bring the quality issues to light, I will not follow by sending US money there. I have seen all I need to see in my repairs of customer supplied Chinese product. I am trying to wash my hands of as much Chi-Fi and any other product from there as I can, but it is extremely difficult due to its proliferation into every product category. I have nothing against Chinese people who have moved away from there and live in the US. It's not about race. It's about ethics of government and corporation. So long as the Chinese have the government control their banks and industries, it is inseparable from their products and business practices. You cannot buy one without supporting the other.
-Bill

 

I’ll stand by my current favorite - the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5A. The Graham next. Harbeth and Rogers after that. I should add that the differences between each maker, to my ears, are small. There’s no bad choice, only the choice that sounds best to whoever is auditioning the speakers.

I’m currently driving a pair of Falcons with an Icon Audio ST40 MKIV Plus (KT88 power tubes, 6SN7 preamp tubes). The combination is really wonderful whether it’s being fed by a Linn LP12/Dynavector DV XX2 MKII, or a TEAC NT-505 streamer, or a Simaudio Moon 260D CD player and Naim DAC V1. It’s a small system current set up in my den. A Yamaha A-S2100 connected to a pair of Diapason Micra III NW speakers is sitting idle in the den most of the time because I like the ST40/Falcon combination so much.

When the Sound Artist boxes show up, I’ll hook them up to the A-S2100 and feed them with an Auralic streamer driving either a Benchmark DAC3 HGC or a Weiss DAC502 (if the Weiss loaner shows up in time). Plus, my Technics SL1200G will be drafted into service along with a Lehmann Black Cube SEII or a Trichord Diablo or possibly a Sutherland Duo or Sutherland Little Loco (depending on what I can lay my hands on).

 

Hi Agitater,
When you say the Graham next,would that be the 5a,or the 5. The reason I ask is I have a pair of the LS3/5’s,and I’ve been curious as to the differences between the two. Subtle differences I’m assuming,would that be correct?
Before purchasing the Grahams, I was searching for a used pair of Harbeth P3’s in my budget. The Graham Chartwell LS3/5’s showed up in my price range,and me being the type of person,that a bit rarer,kind of off the beaten path preference to products, I couldn’t resist. I am in love with the sound of these. Again,just curious about differences.

 

Here is a good comparison between the 2. This review also made me look up the CZECH made XAVIAN Speakers and will probably grab a pair of those as well.

Graham Audio LS3/5 and LS3/5A with SUB3 – Part 1/2

 

I would LOVE to hear a pair of these.

 

Billion$Baby,
Thank you so much for the link. That’s exactly what I was looking for.

 

If you are ever in the Rochester,NY area,look me up. I would be more than happy to give you an audition.

 

The key statement in your post is that you're "...in love with the sound of these..." and that's the ticket to musical nirvana.

I think there are small sonic differences between the Graham LS3/5A, Graham's Chartwell LS3/5, and the Falcon Acoustics LS3/5A. From Graham I prefer their newer LS3/5A.

 

I had LS3/5's for awhile ... wonderful speakers, with that deep view into the recording all the Graham/Chartwell speakers seem to offer.

I think they're a little more 'accurate' than the LS3/5A's, in that I don't think they intentionally feature the notorious BBC dips and bumps. Or at least, not to the same extent. FWIW, I preferred the LS3/5A's when I got to hear them in the same session. (I'd already owned the LS3/5's at this point, and moved on to the LS6's I have now.)