LS50 - am I crazy?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by wolfomatic, Feb 17, 2019.

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  1. wolfomatic

    wolfomatic Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    OK
    Hi, all new user here. I've started putting together my first truly dedicated 2 channel system and here's what I've got so far:

    Schiit Freya Pre
    Schiit Vidar Power amp
    U-turn orbit plus
    Lounge LCR MKIII silver wire
    Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital DAC
    Macbook pro/Roon/Tidal/Redbook/DSD
    Outlaw LFM-1 Plus

    Now the part that's throwing me off. I had some old JBL L1 speakers laying around that never saw much use, they're in excellent condition. I've been running those for a few weeks.

    I special ordered some KEF LS50s expecting to be totally blown away and so far I am definitely not finding it to be night and day, and I think I actually prefer the JBLs. Is this totally insane? Does it mean that I definitely have a setup problem, or is there a world where this is a reasonable conclusion?

    My listening setup is definitely not ideal, but it's the same for both speakers at the moment while I work on getting things set up. Room is approximately 16x16x9, with an additional window alcove thing that's 6x8. The equipment is centered on one of the 16 foot walls at the moment. The kicker is that this is also a spare bedroom, so there's a queen bed positioned on the wall opposite the equipment, putting me about 7 feet from the wall in my listening chair. Speakers are about 3 feet apart on a desk while I search for some adequate stands.

    At the moment I'm halfway tempted to return the LS50s while I still can and focus on upgrading the DAC or turntable, or on finding some other speakers to audition.

    I listen to primarily rock music, but I also like jazz, prog, things like benny greb, victor wooten, etc.

    Am I a total idiot for coming to this conclusion on speakers? Would better positioning likely unlock the "a-ha" moment?

    Thanks very much for any advice you all can provide for a noob as I start down this rabbit hole.
     
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  2. phred

    phred Forum Resident

    Hi
    No not crazy - this hobby is all about system synergy and system room interface.
    It is possible all your gear is inclined towards the detailed/Hi/Fi side of the audio spectrum - possibly the JBLs go some way towards smoothing out the sound.
    I have no experience with most of your gear and you omitted to state how the Kefs sound which makes a recommendation difficult.
    I would swap out the cables for copper (cheap will be fine to help understand if this helps).
    Could you borrow another DAC? ESS implementation is usually towards the Detail/Hi Fi end of the spectrum.
    If the TT sounds the same as the DAC the challenges lie elsewhere (Not with the DAC)
     
  3. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    When did you buy the LS50s? Speakers can take time to fully loosen up.
     
  4. Nephrodoc

    Nephrodoc Forum Resident

    I’ve heard the LS50’s with that amp at The Schitt audio store. They sound great, but they have them on stands a few feet out from the walls. You mentioned they are new, are they broken in yet?
     
    pdxway likes this.
  5. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    It may be so that the JBLs are better than the LS50 so my advice is: use the ones you like better.
     
    russk, Harrocks, SandAndGlass and 3 others like this.
  6. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Let the LS50s break in for awhile. At least a couple weeks of playing a few hours a day. Then reevaluate.
     
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  7. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    The KEFs have a rise in the 2-5 kHz region compared to the 1-2 kHz, which is opposite of the correction needed for the stereo system errors. Voicing of the JBLs could be different, so if you prefer them you are not insane. My guess is the the JBLs sound a bit more laid-back while the KEFs are a bit forward and brighter.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  8. Squiggsy68

    Squiggsy68 Forum Resident

    I had the LS50s for a couple of years - they are great at what they do (which imo is imaging, body and detail), but I think need some careful amp matching to get the most out of them.

    I originally had them with an Exposure 2010s2 integrated and they sounded a bit ragged. Used that amp to start a 2nd system in living room and got a Hegel H160 after hearing it demoed with the LS50s - I don't know if it's the Hegel's supposedly high damping factor but to me as a pairing they were great.

    Then I had the chance to get some Neat Iota Alphas (unusual and fantastic mini floor standers) at a great price ex-demo from my local dealer. Sounded great in shop with my Hegel but then something a little bit missing at home on extended listening. I'd always had an 'itch to scratch' about getting a valve (tube) amp and managed to get another good ex-demo deal on a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP Integrated (having the headphone amp is important to me as well as general listening). Now - that is light and day, seems to be getting a lot more out of the Neats, and I wonder if that's for the opposite reason as the Hegel / LS50s ie the relative lack of damping is letting the Neats breathe more and sounding better as a result - as well as the Primaluna obviously being a decent amp in its own right.

    So - sorry for going on a bit - but I think (as has been stated above) - it's really not about one component in isolation, but the synergy between everything in the system. Where I've ended up is with the best sounding system for me that I've ever had. But it might not be the same for you.

    Now - best get that Hegel listed in the classifieds somewhere I guess...........
     
    pdxway likes this.
  9. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Not crazy, I tried them twice. Second time I was hoping I was crazy the first time, but still didn't work for me for long-term listening. They do some awesome things, though.
     
  10. Dr. J.

    Dr. J. Music is in my soul

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    I had the JBL L1s but regret selling them. They were $750 new in 1992, which puts them over $1300 today. When I listed them for $200 on CL, an audiophile was at my house within the hour--it was the quickest sale I had ever done. They need some juice to open up, which I didn't have at the time but now I do.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  11. tlainhart

    tlainhart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    This is a great summary of the LS50s. I still have mine, but I prefer (at the moment) my Polk floor-standers, as they supply a bottom that's missing on the LS50s (on 24" stands filled with sand). Like the OP, I have a Freya into (2) Vidars.

    It's possible that I don't have enough break-in time, although KEF recommends 30 hours, which I'm sure I have.
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  12. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Always remember Chuck D and Public Enemy : Don't Believe The Hype ! Or at least....be very wary of people 'hyping' anything.
     
  13. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    Hmmm, not having heard them, I can't say, but I wouldn't agree that the LS50s have been hyped. Far from it in fact.
     
    progrocker and Echoes Myron like this.
  14. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    Stereophile Product of the Year
    Audiophiliac Speaker of the Year
    Absolute Sound Editors Choice
    What Hifi - Best Standmounter

    ...that's not enough hype? o_O
     
  15. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    Really? You couldn't get away from it for a few years.
    Four awards from Stereophile, product of the year, budget component of the year, overall component of the year, and runner up speaker of the year, in 2013 gave it much traction for a couple years.
    Plus Stereophile continued to write about it in 2014, and named dropped it every year since. I would be surprised if you picked up a Stereophile from 2013 - 2017 without finding LS50 printed in some article each month. :laugh:

    Edit, @Whoopycat beat me to it.
     
  16. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Many speakers appear to get good reviews although they sound quite different, see examples below. The region 2-5 kHz is important and different voicing leads to quite different speakers.

    NHT 3 classic:
    [​IMG]

    LS50:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
    defmoot likes this.
  17. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    There are a few reasons some audiophiles do not like the sound of a certain speaker.
    Audiophiles hear somewhat differently and have preferences.
    Speakers only as good as the amplifier. And, a tube amp vs solid-state effects the sound of a speaker. Some amps sounds better on certain speakers.
    So, after speaker break-in, the LS50 may not be a good speaker for you.
     
  18. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    You’re not helping your own decision-making process. You’ve got a pair of standmount, rear ported LS50 speakers sitting on a desk which is also presumably positioned against the long wall in the room. That is one of the worst positions for speakers of that design.

    Reflection from the top of the desk is muddying the bass, while insufficient distance between the rear port and the room wall is emphasizing bass. Reflection from the top of the desk is also over-emphasizing the midrange and treble.

    The temporary setup no doubt sounds awful. That you’re used to the old JBLs after having zero expectations of them and after also having been listening to them for a few weeks prior to the arrival of the LS50 is also understandable. Couple all that with some justifiably high expectations for the LS50 prior to arrival, and you’ve got a recipe for disappointment.

    Don’t make decisions about speakers until you’ve got them properly positioned. Proper speaker positioning is important and can’t be emphasized enough. Sending back any pair of speakers after having auditioned them at home in an awful location is just a waste of your time and hard on retailers who have an expectation that you’re going to at least give the speakers a fair chance before boxing them up and shipping them back.

    The difference between any high quality speaker that is properly positioned vs. poorly positioned is typically night and day. I think you can help your decision-making process by doing whatever is necessary to properly position the speakers as soon as possible. You’ll be surprised at the difference it makes.
     
    progrocker, bluemooze, bdfin and 26 others like this.
  19. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    They've been hyped a little for sure. Probably they are worthy, since a lot of people think they are special. The number on the used market though suggests that maybe they aren't special enough for some of these folks.

    I tried them once and they just didn't work for me. Too boomy in my room. Could have been a room/system mismatch. So I really refrain from passing judgement on them personally.

    But I think why I say they've been hyped is that at that price range there is a lot of (strong) competition. A listener is just as likely to prefer another option to the KEF as they are to prefer the KEF. Just like with any speaker, you have to listen to them and decide if they do it for you. There is a good chance they will. There is a good chance they won't.

    And I would agree with Agitator - proper set up is crucial.
     
  20. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member


    Have to say guys, I disagree.

    Sometimes, there are genuinely great products. In terms of "hype", well, maybe, if it was unjustified shilling, but going by what I've read of this speaker, and moreover, of the active variant, it seems to be worth its dues. I'm not the world's greatest KEF fan - I was soundly cold on one of two of their passive standmounts a few years ago. Lovely gloss finish, but lumpy, ponderous bass ended the affair there and then. Had I a spare £2000 going, it'd be on the LS50w in a heartbeat however. Sounds like they've created a genuine winner and - it seems - justfiably so. That's not hype - not where there's substance to back up the pitch.
     
  21. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    The word "hype" implies the praise is unfounded and is typically used in a negative connotation. "Universally praised" is what I'd call them, and I don't doubt those who love them even though they didn't work for me for whatever reason.
     
  22. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    In other words, it appears you haven't heard the LS50W, but going off the hype, er I mean, stuff you've read, you like it. Okay then.
     
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  23. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Hype just means a lot of attention and praise, not that it's founded or unfounded. They've definitely been hyped. Sometimes the hype is justified and sometimes it's not.

    I think this gets a lot of people buying into them, assuming that they must be a great choice. But, they won't be for everyone. Whether that is due to them being a bad room/system fit or just due to musical preferences.

    I'd love to try them again but what has me resisting is that they'd have to be close to my walls, and I don't think they'd sound their best there. That and I'd likely need more power to really hear them at their best.
     
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  24. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    I'm sorry you find this difficult to grasp, but as an advocate of active speakers in a domestic setting, then one that comes with an onboard DAC and preamp is clearly going to be an attractive option. See also AVI's DM10 and 12s, etc.

    Hype: Aggressive promotion, often exaggerating the benefits. I'm not quite convinced that's the LS50s, either passive or active versions.

    There, hope that helps clarify it for you.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  25. wolfomatic

    wolfomatic Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    OK
    This is awesome. Thank you guys!

    I've got about 25 hours on the LS50s at this point. Both sets of speakers are about 18in from the back wall until I get some stands going. They're placed on the very front of the desk currently in an effort to potentially reduce reflections from the desk, but this may cause other problems. I've turned the sub off for a few days to try isolate the bookshelf speakers for comparison. I've got cheapo speaker cables - I'm currently using Installgear 12ga 99.9% copper wire from amazon with monoprice affinity banana plugs.

    As far as the sound goes - I really like to focus in on the electric bass and the drums when listening to rock. I feel like I am getting absolutely nothing in this range from the LS50. I like Dave Grusin's "Fascinating Rhythm," and the LS50 does really seem to come alive with piano and possibly with music that has a little more space to it than most rock music. However, the JBL certainly doesn't fall on its face in this area, either. Snare and cymbals sound great on both to me. I feel like there's a definite lack of punch with the kick drum and that the bass is not cutting through at all with the LS50. I am listening at relatively low volume levels (65-75dB), so perhaps that's not helping the LS50. I'll explore higher volume levels a bit this evening and work on the positioning and see what happens.

    My Schiit gear and the LS50s in the evaluation period right now, so I'm all over the place with my thinking. The LS50s are from Best Buy, so proper auditioning of alternatives there at the store is impossible. The JBL sound good enough to me that I'm considering bumping up the level of components elsewhere, then working on speakers later down the line. I have a Rogue dealer nearby, and if I return the Schiit and the LS50s, I could make a Sphinx or a Cronus Magnum happen.

    I really appreciate the input here. I guess I just expected the LS50s to make me say, "holy $%^& this is unlike anything I've ever heard before" based on what equipment I've had in the past and on the reviews. When that did not happen, my initial assumption was that I must have a clear issue with placement or some other setup problem. I will work more on proper setup in the space that I have and see what results I can achieve.
     
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