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Lyra Delos Phono Cartridge Questions

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. Ontheone

    Ontheone Poorly Understood Member

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I think it depends on your system synergy. I have a Lyra Kleos as well, and while I'd say it runs a little on the "hotter hif-fi" end of the spectrum, it works well in my all-tube system and DeVore speakers which provides a very rich overall presentation. If your system leans towards bright I'd agree that Lyra carts probably aren't the best match. I also run a Shelter 7000 which is much more organic and provides a much different experience than the Lyra. I do like having both and feel that the Lyra extracts more detail and probably bit more extension on both end of the range. Just depends on my mood....I have them mounted on separate headshells so swapping isn't too bog of a chore...just VTA , VTF, and azimuth. I think @avanti1960 is running tubes (or at least a Cary SLP-05 tube pre). I suspect the Lyra will sound great through his setup.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
    ggergm, Dennis0675 and hi_watt like this.
  2. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    Can't tell you what to buy, use what cable you have now but know that if you are not pleased it's heavily weighted on your system synergy. All I can say is my experience with a high cap cable was not good with the Delos and I don't think limiting yourself to a couple loading options will limit what you can extract from the Delos. This is one of the huge benefits of a phono stage with wide variable loading options. I played in the 200-2k ohms range listening for an optimum setting on my Nova II.....although 280, 380 and 475 ohms were the mathematical spots with 475 giving me the highest resolution and most dynamics.

    Have fun!
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  3. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    one final-
    With every MC I have owned higher loading = more top end air; lower loading = less treble. Different with the Delos?
     
  4. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    Where can one acquire one of these?
     
    DaveyF likes this.
  5. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
  6. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
  7. eetu

    eetu Forum Resident

    I’ve been using a Delos for a few weeks and it’s a mighty good cart. On the other hand, I’ve never used any cart at this price point, so I’m don’t know I’d like anything else better. But so far, I love it. It’s detailed and balanced.

    One thing I noticed is that the interconnect cable between phone stage and integrated made a lot of difference. First, I used one QED and the sound was terribly bright and harsh. Then I swapped for a used Nordost Red Dawn and immediately everything was in place.

    Lesson learned, take reviews in the internet with a grain of salt and test, if possible, in your system.
     
  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    yes !
     
  9. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    agreed, I have nordost cables exclusively (blue heaven) including phono to pre, pre to preamp and they sound excellent. the quality of the cable is very important- in addition to the capacitance.
     
  10. Ontheone

    Ontheone Poorly Understood Member

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I found the most sensitive cable to be the one between the SUT and the phono pre. After switching between Kimber, Cardas and a couple of AQ cables it became clear that the noise dissipation system built into the AQ Colorado ICs reduced the noise floor to a minimum compared to the others. Cables make a huge difference in the phono chain for sure...especially when high gain is involved.
     
  11. eetu

    eetu Forum Resident

    Exactly. Cables can make a huge difference. That’s why I wouldn’t think any review or comment about a cart of this quality is a definitive opinion.
     
  12. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Congrats on the new addition to the stable, Little bro! Been reading through this thread and lots of different advice. From what I know about that cart and @Catcher10 experience with it....and he can qualify, but I think he went to a lecture with Mr Carr, I think that’s his name, and got instruction from him on that carts loading? Catcher10 can you kindly confirm I’m remembering correctly?

    But from reading a few reviews about my Sumiko Starling as well as the Songbird....the few that are out there, the comparison to them was the Lyra carts...The Delos as well as the Kleos. So I think I know what sound you’re dealing with...nice wide open sound, very transparent, no noise what so ever from records...fleshed out minds and very nice bass....extended lovely treble that really excellent in tonal balance to the point different cymbals are easily distinct from one another. ...all refined nothing earbleed or out of place at all once set correctly. So if others are throwing out suggestions and opinions...here’s mine...leave all the other yuk in the dirt and just get a nice SUT and be done with it. In my opinion, That cart will be at the head of the class if you do. I lived in the Triage in North Carolina for years.....I’ve heard your preamp. I’ve heard your power amp as well, and Harbeths back in the day. No way that carts treble is ear bleed in that system, lil bro. Be ready to enjoy the music.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  13. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    thanks man, as always...peace.
     
  14. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Tony, have you seen Michael Fremer's review on Analog Planet? There is some good info there on loading.

    The Lyra Delos Moving Coil Cartridge

    When I had mine, I loaded it at 100 ohms.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  15. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    thanks! seems like experimentation will be needed...
     
    5-String likes this.
  16. ggergm

    ggergm Sir Guy

    Location:
    Minnesota
    What I like about these pictures is that they illustrate something I've found. In setting up a cartridge you'll have to run through the basic geometry at least twice, if not three or more times.

    When you mount a new cartridge, the first thing you do is set the overhang, followed by defining the two places where the tonearm is tangent to the groove. That's the basic geometry. Later, when you set azimuth and the stylus rake angle (tone arm height), if you go back and check your geometry, it's changed. It's now off. You have to set it again.

    As you continue to align the cartridge, two things are going on with the basic geometry. The first is what I just mentioned: change one thing and other adjustments are now off. The second is the need to fine tuning the geometry to get it dead-nuts-perfect. It's not unusual for me to at least double-check the geometry 4 or 5 times, often resetting it just a hair.

    This isn't just for Lyra cartridges, although they demand it. Any cartridge I've run into has benefited from being set up exactly right.
     
    grbluen likes this.
  17. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    The Lyra Delos is NOT difficult or finnicky to set up properly. At least no moreso than any other low profile stylus. I don't get all these comments about it being super picky with setup. It has a very common stylus in the Namiki (line contact). Not only that, it's a super open-body design making it incredibly easy to view the cantilever and stylus. Compared to a Kiseki Blue NS or Benz Wood it was far easier.
     
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  18. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    I don't think anyone is saying that the Lyra Delos is harder to set up than the average cartridge, what they ( and I ) are saying is that it needs a more precise set up than the average cartridge. This is true with all of the Lyra cartridges that feature their 'new angle' technology.
     
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  19. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    I wouldn't get too obsessive with loading calcs. When I had the Sutherland 20/20, it was capable of running every MC cart I owed at 47k. The only time I experienced ringing was when I loaded the SS Zephyr Star @ 47k. Cymbals resonated and, well rang (that's the term I use, not sure if it's the correct definition of ringing) . Basically, on some cymbal strikes, there would be a resonant ppssst in the 12k - 14k range. I knew it wasn't right immediately. It could have been the fact that the Zephyr was an MI. I don't know. But it furthered my displeasure with owning the Zeph Star. Long story short, I'd experiment with the Delos. Start at 100 and work your way up - all the way up. Find what you like best and leave it there. After you put 60-100ish hours on it, I'd do it again. Everything should be worn-in at that point.
     
    grbluen likes this.
  20. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Never had the Lyra, but I do have a body-less cart and these type of designs make is really pleasant to align. . You can see everything. But from what I've heard and read about the Lyra....its like the 2M Black in that you have to have it just right or it will sound out of wack! You want to have all carts set up just right, and if you don't, most carts don't let you know like the Lyra carts, I presume.
     
    grbluen and Cliff like this.
  21. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    Basically yes, a higher loading will open up the cart more and a lower loading closes it up some. I found that sound stage was the biggest affect instead of lower or more treble. Once I got above 600 ohms, really did not hear much difference, even pushing it to 100K ohms.
     
    grbluen likes this.
  22. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    Slippers On is right, it was a thread on loading of MC carts that JCarr from Lyra participated on and provided a lot of info, basically the message is use a low cap cable and why....It's a thread on WBF from several yrs ago.
     
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  23. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Relaxed Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I agree. And...these slight changes in VTA or azimuth are not going to change anyone’s opinion from hate to love. Everyone makes it sound like it’s defusing a bomb combined with vascular surgery. I’ve mounted this cart about five times on two different tables and once it was done by a “professional” where I bought it. If you have the correct tools, it’s an easy cart to set up. Get the tonearm level, raise the tail end and listen for the bass to snap into place. Or just leave it level.

    now a koetsu, that’s a nightmare to set up. You can’t see the the stylus hit the mark on your protractor because it doesn’t extend beyond the wood body of the cart. Lyra is a breeze by comparison.

    don’t get me wrong, a cart needs to be set up properly or it won’t sound right but if you know what you’re doing and have tools, it’s fine. If you hit the mark on a good alignment tool, level the tonearm, get the proper VTF and just eyeball the azimuth, you will get how it sounds. Every thread about his cart leaves a man to believe if you don’t like it, it’s because you blew the set up.

    I love to hear someone say, “I hated this cart until someone that knew what they were doing set it up for me.”
     
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  24. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    There are plenty of posts on the SH Forums where users say that setup is crucial with the Delos. They point this out because someone usually mentions that they thought the Delos was treble-heavy. It's crucial for any cartridge with a line contact, FG, shibata, micro ridge, etc. But that's no excuse for the tipped-up treble response which the Delos absolutely exhibits. You either love it or you hate it. And to answer the OP, that's the reason he reads about so many buyers selling their Delos carts off so quickly. Clearly, they hated it.
     
  25. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    The Delos just arrived and was fitted to the headshell. Looks smaller than I thought it would. First impressions later today....
     
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