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Lyra Delos Phono Cartridge Questions

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. hi_watt

    hi_watt The Road Warrior

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Yeah, I remember my Delos not sounding as well as I'd like during a certain point in it's early phase. Now I feel like getting a second one as back up as I put more time on it. :shrug:
     
    Tommyboy likes this.
  2. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    the effects are subtle but noticeable.
     
  3. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Update on the sound of the Lyra Delos as it approaches 48 hours and change.
    The sound is shifting slightly to be more prominent in the upper midrange and treble frequency regions. Still a very nice sounding cartridge but not as nice as it sounded with fewer hours. Refinement has taken a slight hit.
    As of now I want to put the Ortofon Cadenza Blue back on the table because it sounds better than this point of the Delos maturity.
    I will give it until 100 hrs (which seems to be the consensus for break in hours) before final evaluation.
    Makes it a very close horse race between my three favorites.
     
    LeeS and Andy Saunders like this.
  4. Andy Saunders

    Andy Saunders Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Give it more time......:)
     
    avanti1960, hi_watt and LeeS like this.
  5. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    How many hours on the Cadenza? And what is your explanation of refinement, and when you play your CD's or stream music do you have refinement?
     
  6. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Have you readjusted VTA since initial setup? I wouldn’t expect a cartridge to lose refinement with break in.
     
  7. Davey

    Davey NP: Maarja Nuut - Hinged

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Seems like if break in is a real phenomenon, you would expect it to sometimes gain refinement, and sometimes lose refinement, and maybe sometimes to cycle through both periods of refinement before reaching the final state of refinement :)
     
    Slippers-on likes this.
  8. ggergm

    ggergm Sir Guy

    Location:
    Minnesota
    This makes no sense. When you break in a new pair of shoes, do they become less comfortable or do they just become more and more comfortable? Similarly, when you break in a new hat, doesn't become better at fitting your head? It never goes from not fitting to worse fitting to better fitting.

    Granted, breaking in a cartridge is a different duck. Maybe a closer example is breaking in a new rechargeable battery in a phone. As you go through a few charge/discharge cycles, the battery become more able to grab a full charge. Charges last longer. It never goes to lasting a shorter period of time until much later, when the battery is starting to wear out and it can no longer hold a full charge.
     
    Davey likes this.
  9. Erocka2000

    Erocka2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    If you wind up moving on from the Lyra, I implore you to try a Kiseki Blue NS. When I still used the stock arm on my 1200G, I had a Blue NS on it and it sounded fantastic. Just use a heavier headshell.
     
  10. Davey

    Davey NP: Maarja Nuut - Hinged

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    Are you saying that @avanti1960 is wrong in his assessment of the change in sound quality he is experiencing, that cartridge break-in should only result in better sound quality because the cartridge elements become more comfortable in their setting?

    Anyway, that's a tangent that has already been talked about enough around here and I don't want to derail the thread, I should've withheld my comment above. I don't think break-in is a myth, I just don't think it always results in better sound quality. We can disagree on that, and feel free to respond if you like, but I'll end it here. Thanks for the discussion :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
    avanti1960 and ggergm like this.
  11. PATB

    PATB Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    In the case of the Delos, because of the preloading requirement (set by the VTF), it is possible that break-in could alter the height of the suspension for better or for worse.
     
    avanti1960 and Greenmonster2420 like this.
  12. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Might want to play with the VTF a bit.

    Recently found that my TT had fallen away from the digital side of my system. I took a look at settings again and found that I had changed the force to the center of the manufacturer's spec (1.6-2.0 gram) at about 1.83. Dropped it back down to where I had been running it prior, at 1.6 grams and the difference was not subtle, and for the better.

    Suspension might be looser than at start, I'm sure it is. I'd sure play around with VTF and VTA a bit to ensure the Delos is in it's current sweet spot.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  13. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    I remember when little brother got the 2M Black.:) It was a process, same here. A little patience is required, but he is tempted to put the other cart back in. I'm wondering if he is use to the hard contrast and liveliness of the Ortfon which they are known for. I can't imagine the Delos being without refinement. Normally when running in a new cart it's a good thing to drop the tail end of the tonearm a little. Changes in sound do certainly happen on most carts but one must suffer through it as cart is headed to her final performance. ..and after 50 or so hours , lift the tonearms to get things and sound in order. I wondering if he started with tail down a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
    avanti1960 likes this.
  14. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Clothing and shoes are very different in everyway to audio gear. I've had new amps out the box that changed sound back and forth before it settle in....Ive had new cartridges that did the same thing.....infact the manual I have now for my cartridge states such and to be patient.
     
  15. ggergm

    ggergm Sir Guy

    Location:
    Minnesota
    I greatly appreciate the thoughtfulness of your reply. I wouldn't use the word "comfortable" because of the anthropomorphism it implies. A cartridge can't feel more comfortable. Looser or more pliable would be better descriptors. It becomes better able to trace the smallest variations in a record groove.

    No, I would not say @avanti1960 is wrong. It's hard to separate "different" from the values of "better" and "worse." I know I have made this error. It's another way we place human descriptions onto machines. Different is just that. It's not the same. It's neither good nor bad.

    Another apt descriptor would be "more revealing." Some people have mentioned checking VTA. The different sound avanti is hearing could be that. I know I will often redo a cartridge's set-up completely after it is broken in. Too much has changed to rely on that first, static alignment.

    It's easy to do the math that shows a cartridge is capable of picking up hills and dales in the record groove only one order of magnitude greater than the wavelength of light. It shouldn't be surprising that the sound will change as it becomes easier for the cantilever to wiggle. In fact, it would be curious if the sound didn't.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
    Greenmonster2420 likes this.
  16. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Ohio
    I will usually do a full adjustment on the cart/arm after 50-100 hours. The adjustments are usually not huge, but often have to be made in nearly every parameter (alignment, VTA, VTF, azimuth). I find as the suspension settles in, all of these change slightly. The Delos is extremely sensitive to VTA/VTF in my experience.

    I bought my Delos used with over 100 hours on it, so I’m not familiar with its break in. But on the carts I have broken in, I generally have found improvements to the sound, never worse.
     
    edwyun and avanti1960 like this.
  17. Ontheone

    Ontheone Poorly Understood Member

    Location:
    Indianapolis
    I suppose it's possible that the rake angle has changed as the suspension loosens up. A VTA adjustment may be needed after 50 hrs or so. I have not experienced that but I'm just theorizing.
     
  18. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    cadenza has 50 hrs on retip, 1800 hrs on cartridge.
    i am backing off of the slight loss of refinement- it is in the recording that i played. other recordings do sound refined.
    however it is most definitely emphasizing the upper midrange / lower treble more than it had been. not horribly but noticeably. my recollections of the ART9 and Cadenza Blue are more favorable but I will wait to make any changes.
     
    Slippers-on likes this.
  19. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    no but I did check it.
    my original ART9 changed a few times for the worse during it's run in time...
     
    Slippers-on likes this.
  20. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    To this day my Delos has never been bass heavy. It WILL make records that are mixed heavy in bass very prominent in that region, it is simply playing what is on the record. Everyone knows it is a cart that gives a very realistic midrange, much more accurate than "tipped up" mids. Spinning Eric Clapton Unplugged last night and the audience as well the whole band continues to be in my room. Eric's acoustic guitar is so realistic and live, still to this day.

    Let's not forget the Delos range is 10Hz to 50KHz, if your system can come close to reproducing this range you may just not be used to the sound, or maybe you don't like that wide of a freq range possibly. Nothing wrong in only liking 20Hz-20KHz, it's not always the gear we don't care for.
     
    recstar24 and Slippers-on like this.
  21. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    @avanti1960 's observation on emphasis on the upper mid range / lower tremble resembles my own experience with the Delos.
    It is a sound signature that, depending on the recordings that you play, either you love or you hate.
    Some people call it “truth teller”.
    I call it “fatiguing”.
     
  22. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Yeah.....wait it out.
     
  23. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    My Man! I think I will go into the listening library and fire up that record....its been awhile since last played...and a sip of my favorite Single Malt. Thanks for the idea, bro!
     
    Catcher10 likes this.
  24. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    @5-String Maybe it's me.....but please define "upper mid-range/lower treble"? Upper mid range, means upper half of the half point of the mid range :confused: Maybe I need an instrument example to understand what this range is, or area of range is.
     
  25. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    This is considered to be the frequencies from 2 to 4 kHz, maybe up to 5 kHz. This is the range which, according to various researches, our ears are most sensitive.

    edit to add this link:

    Audio Spectrum
     

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