Haha. Sorry, Bobby, I just couldn't help myself. I've just noticed that quite a few songs and albums are a little too long to your taste . But that was a nice, little dig! I deserved it.
I do like a good 40-45 minute album. As for the Bee Gees, as great as they generally are, when Barry is singing the first verse of a song and it last 2 minutes, I can’t help but think something’s gone wrong.
The people on this thread in general aren't the "boomers are the best, the 60s is the only time music mattered, man!!!" folks though. Those people have long made their disdain for Madonna known and they aren't people who liked her in the 1980s or enjoyed Ray Of Light or something, those people derided her from the moment they first heard her, and her new stuff isn't even on their radar.
Yeah, being punished by being able to make millions touring and living in the lap of luxury. Poor, poor Madonna. My heart weeps for her. What happened to the Madonna who did what she wanted and didn't care if people liked it or not? What's with the persecution complex? Reminds me of Michael Jackson in that regard.
I've never been much of a fan but I hope for her sake and for gracefully aging diva's everywhere that she shows she still has something left in the creative tank. Kylie is still going strong and Mariah put out an incredible R&B album last year that nobody listened to but it's still one of her best. There was a time when pop stars could have long, distinguished careers and it was perfectly acceptable. You don't have to be 12 year old jailbait to be relevant. We oldsters like pop music too...
I know she never will, but Madonna needs to get over herself and stop worrying about critics, who will always be there no matter she does (it goes with the territory of having had that much success). I am sure on some level it bugs her to see these new pop stars, almost all of whom pale in comparison to what she did in her prime (relative to the times), yet she has to know that her ceiling to draw younger fans is pretty low. Kids these days want stars of their own era, not from their parents' era. I was talking to my 12-year old niece about music a few weeks back and threw out some names, Madonna being one of them. Her reply to me asking if she liked any Madonna song was, "She's old." And when I asked if any of her friends liked her, she said they all think she's old as well. I wasn't surprised.
Madonna has actually had it pretty good. She was scoring top 10 hits well into her late 40s and early 50s, even with material that wasn't necessarily her best. Someone mentioned Mariah Carey, who I am legitimately shocked by how poorly her latest album (despite being fantastic!) and its singles performed. Nobody cares about her, and she's younger than Madonna was when she had her last big hits.
Kylie is a good example. She’s still putting out great pop albums. Her last one, 2018’s Golden, is one of her best IMO.
Ageism in the US especially toward older artists is insane. Mariah's latest was her best since probably Emancipation Of Mimi, but she's "too old" now. Hell, Pink's latest seems to be a bit of a non-event and she's still a few months shy of 40 and just had a #1 hit 5-6 years ago
I never thought of Kylie or Mariah as artists in the sense that Madonna is. Madonna always had a balance of darkensss and light in her work that set it apart from other pop “divas,” plus she made a lot more bold statements than most of them. Not saying bold statements are necessary for good music or that those other artists didn’t have their share of good tunes. Also I don’t see much auto tune on the I Rise song until the finale. Her vocals sound very clear.
Her complaints about ageism are pretty weak IMO. Top 40/pop radio (or YouTube, Spotify or whatever format is reaching teens and young adults these days) is targeted towards a young demographic, so of course they aren't going to go out of their way to play new music from an artist old enough to be the average listener's grandmother, especially when said artist isn't releasing outstanding singles. If mainstream acceptance and success in 2019 is that important to her she needs to come out with something undeniably great and unique, rather than just following whatever trends are popular at the moment. Cher's "Believe" was a massive hit because it was so different from everything else on the charts at the time, and radio was pretty much forced to play it due to public interest, despite Cher's age. Not saying Madonna will ever enjoy that level of success again, but IMO that's the only chance she has. In hindsight I wish her collaboration with Justin Timberlake back in 2008 hadn't been a hit, as she's pretty much followed that template of featuring "hot" guest artists ever since in her quest for more hits.
It's gotten worse with the passage of time. There was a time where people like Cher, Tina, Elton and Aerosmith could still score pop hits over the age of 50. Nowadays people are so wanting to protect the precious 13 year olds and shield them from "old folks" that a 40 year old today has a harder time scoring hits than a 50 year old could 20 years ago. Beyonce wisely reinvented herself into more of an album artist.
Yeah, it does feel like she's banking on getting a late career hit like Cher did. That Timberlake song wasn't very good, which was surprising given how good his then recent FutureSex album was (at least the first 6 songs on it, anyway...)
I listened to Medellin again, given that the first listen was a total turnoff, and the second listen wasn't as bad. I like the rhythm quite a bit and Madonna's vocal parts are mostly pretty good, but the guest star (never heard of the guy and cannot remember his name) really drags the song down. I get it, she uses these people to get more sales, which is clever marketing, but most of the time it seems like the guest vocalist hurts the song more than they help, IMO.
I’m not surprised in the least that a 12-year old would consider Madonna “old”. I’m guessing in her teens and twenties Madonna wasn’t following many 60-plus artists either.
She makes some good points, but Madonna had the best run of any artist of her era...Almost 20 years of solid radio support. The headline would have made more sense if it had read, “I’m being punished for making mediocre, trend-chasing records”.
Its a good song ruined by a rubbish rap. I'm not into rap at all but I at least acknowledge the clever lyrical rhythms and wordplay. I wonder how this song developed, whether they had her parts ready for some kind of rapping and then shoehorned this bloke in? If her aim was to expose him or this style of rap to the rest of the world, it is a big fail. Dirge. 'I Rise' ruined by completely OTT autotune, suspect that could have been a decent album track (for my taste) without it. If that was Mirwais' doing then he has also become very outdated to these ears and this wallet at least.
I Rise is Madonna by numbers. If it were on True Blue it would be Jimmy Jimmy. Hell, if it were on Who’s That Girl it would be Can’t Stop! But yes, the autotune destroys whatever merits the song might have. Don’t like the tuneless, rappy style verses either. There’s a lot of this around nowadays.
I have been looking at the various configurations of the album on CD and unless there are some particularly long tracks I find it odd that for the deluxe edition they have chosen to add a 2nd disc. I know they have done this for the last 2 albums, however I think in this case it is a little different. Bonus tracks are incorporated into the running order of the album so although I Rise is the last track on whichever version you buy, if you get the deluxe edition it is on the 2nd disc (along with 2 other tracks) which gives the impression that it's a bonus track. There is going to be a special edition with 2 additional tracks which is only available via Target and HMV. As I have an HMV in my hometown this is probably the version I will get. No details appear to have been released regarding this version yet.
The SDE is currently £70 on Amazon. That’s very steep considering there isn’t that much in the box! I’ll probably go for the DE. That’s currently £14.
Actually this was in 1990. Madonna wanted fuller lips for her Justify My Love video. The effect wore off after 3-6 months.
That's a really interesting observation. Madonna was never the best singer, the best dancer, didn't generally write her own material, etc. and yet she used the pop milieu to express herself in an often boldly artistic way that transcended her limitations and I've always thought she was most interesting when she was pushing herself into more extreme territory with stuff like Erotica. Kylie is more of a pure pop star with a great voice and is enthusiastically unapologetic about it. Mariah is a different gig entirely. Her diva antics and boob-forward wardrobe often overshadow her pop song craft ability which, to me is quite formidable. She is at a point where she doesn't have to prove herself or even have a hit and is just doing exactly what she wants to do and I think this is why her recent music is so good. Madonna could take a page from her playbook in that regard. Accept the situation and make the most of it. Frankly, everyone pushing sixty has to deal with this situation regarding their perceived relevance sooner or later. She's just doing it in public.
