Great interview. He doesn't state sampling/bit rate; but it was common practice to do the mix at 44/16 in those days. Since the remix is 24 bit, I'd like to assume the multi tracks were 24bit & not an upsample. I Hope to Hades that the 24 track master wasn't sampled at 44................ If so we're never going to get a great sounding version in any format..
Clutching At Straws is the high point of the Fish era for me - darker, angrier, more mature than Misplaced Childhood. I've never got on with Misplaced Childhood - I have a great deal of respect for it as a piece of art, but if I want to hear Fish era Marillion, I will always play Clutching At Straws or maybe Fugazi. The first three tracks which all lead into each other are stunning. White Russian, Torch Song, and The Last Straw are all stunning. Going Under has such a great vibe. Just For the Record and Incommunicado are more lightweight, single orientated, but still strong and help to break up the heavier parts of the material. For me, Clutching At Straws is the finest album Fish is involved in - his solo work has some strong moments, but nothing as cohesive as this. Given in the interview reference is made to using Sony digital multitrack recording, I am fairly certain this will have been at 44.1/16, 24 bit recording was not available until the 1990s. I personally wish all the original album mixes had been sympathetically remastered and included as part of the deluxe sets - instead the majority have just included the original masterings on the blu-ray disks.
Took me a few months to really get this album. At first I thought it was Marillion light musically and didn't really resonate lyrically. But as I kept listening it really started to click. Misplaced Childhood and Clutching are almost like 1 and 1-A. It's also probably my favorite tour and the Milan '88 show may be my most listened to Marillion show ever. They are just on fire. Just a great listening experience.
Great lyrics, great album only bettered by Script for Jesters Tear. After this we got .. pop lyrics ..
That's a bit... bad. Fish is my #1 lyric writer without a doubt, but credit where credit is due A ghost of a mist was on the field The grey and the green together The noise of a distant farm machine Out of the first light came A tattered necklace of hedge end trees On the southern side of the hill Betrays where the border runs between Where Mary Dunoon's boy fell And that was only the first album!
Agreed, other than Clutching is my personal #1. Bottom line for me, they did a total of 1 song during the Fish era I didn't like (Margaret). Their aren't many artists I can say that about! Hogarth did do ONE WAY out there tune (i.e. NOT pop) that I love, Cannibal Surfer Babe. It has nothing to do with the Fish era style, but i love the combination of major drug influences mixed with the Beach Boys!
Lyrically & musically Clutching was a total masterpiece. I'm gratified that I'm not the only one who loves it.
Without wanting to start a Fish Vs h argument... Both write from the heart, and are breathtakingly open about their feelings, experiences and pain. The difference is alongside these from the heart lyrics, Fish strays more into traditional prog realm of fantasy, but also darker subjects such as drink and drugs. h on the other hand writes more about political issues and humanitarian causes (Easter, Gaza, The Real Kings). Certainly the lyrics on the first few h era albums were different to the Fish era, but from This Strange Engine onwards, h pours out his soul on childhood experiences and failing relationships, just as Fish has done. Now Shell Never Know, House, Neverland, Somewhere Else, are all examples.
It would be a shame if this thread degenerated into a Fish vs. H argument. Personally, I am an avid fan of both eras as it has always been the music first for me with Marillion. As much as I love Script, the drumming lets the side down. There is something about that nucleus of Rothery / Kelly / Trewavas / Mosley that sounds totally right to me. Hogarth’s musicianship should not be underestimated, either.
I try and love the h stuff ...but I kinda of like and admire them, whereas the fish era I LOVE ..but I also only like his solo stuff too....so it’s just that the fish era Marillion is outstanding for me ...
This Japanese reissue was allegedly remastered although I don't see anything listed in the credits on Discogs... it became my go-to version but I haven't A-B'd it with the original in many years. Marillion - The Thieving Magpie = La Gazza Ladra = 伝統への序章（プロローグ）
That's largely how I feel. I am close to catalog & also own 3 Hogarth solo & duo cd's. The problem for me is post Fish Marillion has a tendency for me with some exceptions to sound like 1 looooong song (much of it sounds the same to me). I like Hogarth & his style; but few of the songs are truly memorable for me. Easter, Cannibal Surfer Babe, Hooks In You, Lap Of Luxury, Beautiful are probably the most memorable to me. I remember particularly enjoying .com though no song stands out (which is the problem for me; I instantly recognize every Fish era song). I would guess the entire band has some responsibility for the change as H doesn't write most of the music.
I don't know why I have such trouble participating with this thread... I've just revisited Script, so I'm lagging very much behind! Sorry! Market Square Heroes: Classic! Love the infectious shuffle (even better in the re-recording with the additional verse and ending, though). As much 70s as this sounds, Fish's voice adds a punky edge that's also reinforced by the lyrics. Though I prefer the re-recording, I have to say that Mick Pointer's drums don't sound bad to me here. Three Boats Down from the Candy: I guess this is more prescient of Marillion's signature style, but somehow I find this one rather unfocused, and Fish's innuendos sound forced. Market Square Heroes would've been good enough to be on the debut album, this not so much. Even the guitar/synth part can't really save it, IMO. Grendel: As Grendel leaves his messy home ... yeah, I know this is often seen as a kind of laughing stock, and even Fish seems to be ashamed of it now. He shouldn't be though - his lyric and the absolutely terrifying rendition of it is what really makes the song. And the guitar solo at the end already hints at what Rothery is capable of. I know a lot has been made out of the Supper's Ready comparison but to me, you can't really compare the two songs. Supper's Ready has recurring motifs, but overall is seven separate pieces linked together. Grendel is much more linear (it has an actual chorus). And in Marillion's defense, it was their first release, whereas Genesis had already made three LPs and polished their live sound when they came up with Supper's Ready. It would be a fairer comparison if Marillion's early stuff were compared against, say, songs from Trespass. I think the alternate longer version that appeared on the 2CD remaster (but idiotically, not the new deluxe edition) is superior... it seems less overproduced, although I haven't relistened. That said, I love the church organ at the 9 minute mark, and the acoustic guitar at 12 minutes in. Script for a Jester's Tear: Melodramatic, and a pretty good introduction for the band's general mode... and mood. Marillion's calling card, perhaps? But then there's the very stilted drumming, and overall the song feels like it was put together without much thought for proper transitions. This is especially noticeable on the Loreley video where the song is surrounded by later compositions, and really sounds cobbled together in comparison to "Incubus", "Assassing" and "Slàinte Mhath". The melodies are good, the lyrics too (even if somewhat too wallowing in self-misery), but the whole doesn't impress me as much. He Knows You Know: This is probably the most satisfying song Marillion released on the debut album - I really like Garden Party too but that would only really come to life on stage. It's telling, though, that the chord sequence is very standard. None of the classic prog bands would've used such a simple progression over and over again! Also, this sounds much colder than 70s prog (except perhaps Van der Graaf Generator, whom I've not really checked out much yet). But Marillion show that they're good at arranging, so we get little rhythmic variations, a nice sense of dynamics. Fish doesn't sound anything like Gabriel or Collins on this song (holy smokes, those terrifying lyrics), and Rothery's guitar has never been edgier. Mark Kelly... well, let's say he became more tasteful with his keyboard presets. The Web: Same key, same falling chord sequence, same mood... yeah, Marillion were pretty limited at first. Fish said the song hasn't aged so well, and it's a view I tend to agree with. Basically, the band do little with the quiet bits (despite this being nine minutes long), and I'm just waiting for the exciting moments to happen. Rothery shreds a pretty aggressive solo while Mick Pointer comes up with some unimaginative drum patterns underneath. At the end we get a bit of that Market Square Heroes vibe, but it feels a bit unwarranted (the ending should be much more triumphant). But it's interesting how much this seems to presage Misplaced Childhood; we get the Pseudo Silk Kimono melody in the main part (granted, it's just a minor scale) and a similarly cathartic ending with "Decisions have been made" (vs. "I found direction"). Basically, a rough diamond. Garden Party: One reason I love this song is because it breaks up the dark mood that's so pervasive on this album. (I really think Market Square Heroes should've been here too.) It's not a particularly complex song either but just very much fun. But as others have said, the drumming sounds really stilted and almost ruins the track. I actually only really notice it here, on the title track and parts of The Web. Mick sounds good to me on Forgotten Sons and He Knows You Know, although not particularly interesting. Chelsea Monday: This is probably my least favourite song on the album... it's not bad, but overall the least exciting one for me. Again, very standard chord progression in the first half, and Fish sounds a bit annoying. The Rothery solo, and especially the second one, saves it somewhat, but I think Marillion would develop this type of song much further. Funny that the chorus of Kayleigh was an unused bit from this song! Forgotten Sons: An appropriately epic ending (and a brief snippet of MSH in the intro!) and the first song that really sounds exciting! Speaking in Genesis terms, this is the album's "The Knife". Unfortunately I don't find it too memorable, but what really works is the tense, constricting atmosphere, and Fish's lyrical tour-de-force ("verbal masturbation"). Apparently there were some supernatural things going on during the recording of the album, which found its way onto the 'sermon' part of the song... and I think you can hear bits of that. Charting the Single (B-Side): Boring. The only good thing is the neologism "Alcoholiday".
Somewhere along the way I have missed ever having listened to that alternate version despite having had the 2CD remaster since release. I'm firing up Foobar right now to have a listen. Learn something new every day on SHF.
Well there you go. The longer version of Grendel is indeed a thing of wonder. Pointer's drumming is still crap though.
Thieving Magpie is one of their albums that I still feel sounds better on the original vinyl pressing than any of the CD or streaming versions
Thanks. I didn't realize there was an exclusive track on the 2 cd set, I knew there was some reason I didn't sell it, lol!. Also thank you for your comments on having time to visit this thread. I'm trying to balance how fast I put up the next album between not boring people vs giving people the time to post about the current album. I was going to put Lorley up today; I may wait a few days.
There's actually two more; demo versions of Chelsea Monday and He Knows You Know. But if you look through the original ABA thread you'll see that there are a lot of demos from the phase before the debut LP. God knows why they have never been properly released. Anyway, trying to catch up as quickly as possible, here's my revisiting of Fugazi: Assassing: Love this song... it's a real powerful statement. It's a tour de force for Fish as a writer ("apocalyptic alphabet") and singer ("to eradicate the problem"), but it's also down to the band's intricate and powerful performance. It also never lets up; the intensity just comes and goes in waves, but it never ceases. Harmonically and melodically, it's also more advanced than most of the earlier songs. My favourite moment happens from 1:36 to 1:53 though: Marillion have often been compared to Pink Floyd for their slow, lumbering songs... but this part is very much The Wall! Love it when Rothery gets a little bit 'funky' with his guitar. The overall mix is a bit cold and harsh, yes, but even that seems to fit to the music. The 7" edit works surprisingly well at condensing such a sprawling epic to a radio-compatible length (pretty much 1/2 of the original running time... speaking of which, the dry alternative mix is even longer! It has a passage between 4:15 and 5:00 that was cut), but the LP version is of course superior. Punch and Judy: Marillion's idea of a radio-compatible song, and it does have shades of Saga and the like (e-drums, some of the twinkly key sounds), but overall this was far too quirky and edgy to really make a dent in the charts. Still, it's just four chords and a simple structure... with Fish singing about the horrors of a marriage that has turned from love into annoyance and hate by the simple power of routine, in a lyric that's both funny (the "who left the cap off the toothpaste tube, who forgot to flush the loo" and the "waistland" wordplay) and shocking (what happens at the end). A little self-contained masterpiece. Jigsaw: I keep forgetting this song is on this album. Not because it's bad - it's a beautiful ballad - but because it's the only somewhat friendly sounding thing on the entire record. In a way, this points forward into the future, and way beyond Fish's tenure with the band. Isn't this the most refined singing he's offered up, at least until this point? It's also got shades of Steve Hackett's solo work, but despite the seeming simplicity, the chorus rhythm is actually quite interesting. You could easily cut out the guitar solo part and pass it off as coming from a song from any number of post-1989 Marillion albums, which shows that the continuity is stronger than people who like to focus on the vocals would admit to. Emerald Lies: I don't know why but I can't say I care for this song as much as the rest of the album. The vaguely Talk-Talk-like opening is great, but then it just sort of meanders without much focus or direction, while Fish rants away...Even the lyric is a bit too obscure for my taste. She Cameleon: I like this one more, but it's not exactly uplifting either...! It's unsettling, disturbing, but in a sort of strangely enchanting manner. One does wonder about Fish's issues with the female gender - four songs on an album that only has seven tracks... Fish's shout "Distinctly casual affair!!!!" is good, but the 6-time f-bomb feels forced. Incubus: This is clearly one of early Marillion's signature and peak songs. I think all the people involved in the song's creation have admitted to that at some point. Again, this is not easy to deal with, lyrically... but it draws you in. Unlike previous attempts of this sort ("The Web", "Emerald Lies"), the quiet parts maintain the eerie atmosphere and are just as interesting as the loud ones. Finally, the song closes with one of the finest ending sequences I've ever heard on a prog album... and given the song's sexual content, it's maybe not so surprising that there's something really *physical* about how the band winds this one up. (Of course, it's not the newest trick... see Genesis' "The Musical Box" for a likely inspiration. But I think I prefer "Incubus"!) Fugazi: And even more darkness to finish this dark album. Just like "Incubus", this is surprisingly devoid of long instrumental excursions for an 8-minute prog track. Again, Fish is front and center, his deranged rambling about nightmarish visions in the subway is wonderfully complimented by the music, which has got more than enough hooks and transitions to convince anyone who might've been complaining about the somewhat stilted debut album. At 4:30 we're plunged really deep in the darkness, and it's not something I really want to immerse myself in all too often... this is the problem with the album. But it's still really well done. A fitting ending to a challenging album. So, after the well-meant, but ultimately a bit too tentative debut, Fugazi really sees Marillion progress in many ways. Ian Mosley's addition makes the band sound more powerful, Fish develops his singing style further, and the compositions and arrangements have become a lot more sophisticated. Given how problematic the writing and recording process was, it's a miracle they came out of it with such a strong album. That it was actually less successful than the debut put the band under pressure, of course, but this doesn't really matter when we look at it now. Cinderella Search (B-Side): Not bad at all, but perhaps a bit less eventful than most of the album tracks. I wouldn't have minded this on the album instead of "Emerald Lies", though. Market Square Heroes / Three Boats Down from the Candy (Re-Recordings): No idea why one of the re-recordings appeared on the 2CD of Fugazi and the other one on Script? Anyway, these were made with John Marter and show how much of a difference a drummer can make. Both songs sound much punchier and well-rounded. Market Square Heroes also gets updated with an additional verse and a proper ending, and basically sounds like the live versions. Thee Boats is still not a favourite of mine, but I prefer this over the original version. Here's hoping the tracks will both be part of the Fugazi deluxe edition in some form, but with the inconsistencies in the series so far, I wouldn't bet on it! (MSH has the "antichrist" lyric, while the original version that was included on the Script box has the censored lyric, so that would be a plus.)
@JulesRules , thanks for sharing your thoughts! And also for reminding me of all the 12" sinfles I used to own in my vinyl days that I had forgotten about.
Lady Nina might be the one song that I'm not that into mostly due yo the drum machine. There's more of the Hogarth era that I'm not into but that is primary limited to Brave, half of Afraid Of Sunlight and Less is More. I'm into everything else. Hell. I managed to get into the live version of Cannibal Surf Babe from Rotterdam on the Deluxe Edition.
