So having just packed up the single LP version of the 2020 mix of SFAJT release via Rhino for c£20.00 last month I have decided to wait for for the single LP version of this Fugazi release. I have picked up the CD/ BR pack for £22 from my local Record Store as I quite like the idea of the live album /BR Content with a mix of Fugazi and SFATJ material. More generally I do think that the price of Vinyl will push some consumers back towards well mastered CD's.
Just watched the documentary which was interesting. Every other sentence from Fish related to cocaine and generally being wasted. He talked a bit about the music too.
Not wanting to really be that one arguing about numbers but have to keep Delta in mind (who doesn't these days ). Afraid... is from the mid90s when compression levels were already rising. The remix is barely louder than the original. Now look at the original DR values of Script or Clutching - more of a difference. (From what was posted above, they seem to have reined it in a bit for Fugazi.)
Just listening to the 5.1 for the first time and Fish's first vocal entry on "Assassing" is way down in the mix: a real warning sign that made me open up a reply window so that I could note any other problems. "Assassing." Very bright and immediate with lots of channeling effects but in addition to the dropped volume on the vocal ("Shock!") at the start they seem to have completely deleted "Listen to the blade(?)" into the instrumental section. [Correction: that line is there but much quieter.] The sound feels saturated towards the end. "Punch and Judy." The start feels almost re-recorded. Vocals again a trifle quiet and the dynamics on the vocals are accordingly "compressed", they pop less. Drums lack immediacy. "Jigsaw." Sounds good at the start. Huh? Have they removed the echo voice on the chorus or was it never on the first chorus? (It's there on the first line of the second chorus, then missing.) Love this guitar solo but it should have been mixed higher. The vocal trail on "trigger happy-happy" has been effectively deleted. Bass guitar rediscovered at the end ... a nice touch on an otherwise dodgy remix. They run the song for an extra couple of bars so you hear an extra line of vocal outro. "Emerald Lies." Echo voice on "Harlequin" is missing. Drums and bass guitar pop nicely into "Innocence!" More or less okay. "She Chameleon." Vocals sound to be at the right volume at the start of this one ... they've been generally too low. Channeling very conservative so far throughout with the rears tending to be used for keyboard washes. Vocals missing on the "oo ah" after the line "I've seen a different doorway": another glaring omission. The final word (chameleon) has been inserted at the wrong part of the bar ... this is mind-bogglingly amateurish at times! "Incubus." Keyboards seem a little high. The dynamics just "feel" wrong but it's not a disaster. The piano is nicely prominent on the second section, but at the expense of the vocals again. Another great guitar solo. Well this certainly sounds like a remix rather than a surround mix of the original album. Okay. "Fugazi." The piano is loud ... too loud (much as I love it). The second section starts too soon. (The electric guitar comes in at least a bar early.) "D-d-d-d-do you realise?" is messed up but I'm not sure why ... is it just channeled wrong? The climax sounds saturated with no headroom and the snare drum either enters too late or it's mixed wrong or they've taken the chorus off it or ... something to mess it up. The original ending was a fade and they have restored(?) a rather crappy end that does not do the song justice. It's a measure of how bad this is that when I played "Cinderella Search" (the original stereo) the dynamics burst out as though suddenly I was hearing a properly mixed track. Not since Mike Oldfield's Five Miles Out have I heard a surround mix mistreat an album as badly as this. The vocals are seriously compromised, featuring numerous omissions, the drums are low in the mix sucking a lot of the life out of the album and the keyboards are cranked up as high as possible. At no point was I convinced that I was hearing the original album and the missteps were so grating that I ceased enjoying the remix very early. Of course, I know the original very, very well so maybe I'm being picky but I'm seriously pissed with this thing.
I've bought them for the unreleased concerts & each time in hope that the 24 bit version wouldn't be brickwalled. The Hogarths aren't going to be worth it for me, especially with the dreadful mastering.
Can't say I'm surprised at all at this revelation. Not only are his lyrics on Fugazi a bag of utterly pretentious ass-gravy, but some of his pronunciations of the words he's singing are embarrassing. Dear oh dear. The drugs didn't work, Derek, even if you had a more-than-decent thesaurus.... That said, Fugazi has long been my least-favourite Marillion album due to the appalling production. Having just listened to the new mix on Deezer, I think I'm going to buy the vinyl box set. Maybe....
It amazingly still happens occasionally! As mentioned on the HR thread The new Elvis Costello This Year's Model Remaster is a DR12. The 2015 was DR7.
It would have really been nice if they'd turned off the compressor & worked with the eq. The 1984 original is not a quiet cd; EAC showed all but one tracks peaked at 100%. It's just got close to 0 compression. Original (admittedly thin sounding) Fugazi cd: (cd rip): foobar2000 1.6.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2021-09-10 18:07:29 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: ? / ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR14 0.00 dB -16.18 dB 7:03 ?-01. Marillion - Assassing DR13 0.00 dB -16.62 dB 3:21 ?-02. Marillion - Punch and Judy DR14 0.00 dB -18.60 dB 6:51 ?-03. Marillion - Jigsaw DR13 -0.45 dB -17.34 dB 5:12 ?-04. Marillion - Emerald Lies DR14 0.00 dB -17.49 dB 6:54 ?-05. Marillion - She Chameleon DR13 0.00 dB -16.10 dB 8:32 ?-06. Marillion - Incubus DR14 0.00 dB -17.02 dB 8:03 ?-07. Marillion - Fugazi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 7 Official DR value: DR14 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 1411 kbps Codec: PCM ================================================================================ 2021 Remaster (web, my box hasn't arrived yet): foobar2000 1.6.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1 log date: 2021-09-09 21:56:47 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Marillion / Fugazi (Deluxe Edition) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR8 -0.10 dB -10.06 dB 7:02 01-Assassing DR8 -0.10 dB -9.65 dB 3:22 02-Punch and Judy DR9 -0.02 dB -11.27 dB 6:50 03-Jigsaw DR9 -0.01 dB -11.55 dB 5:08 04-Emerald Lies DR10 0.00 dB -12.75 dB 6:53 05-She Chameleon DR9 -0.10 dB -11.45 dB 8:30 06-Incubus DR8 -0.10 dB -10.46 dB 8:04 07-Fugazi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 7 Official DR value: DR9 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bits per sample: 16 Bitrate: 875 kbps Codec: FLAC ================================================================================
Sure, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while…..but expecting it is an exercise in futility
It is SO wrong. They could at least let us know the DR # before purchase. Today we have the technology to bring out the magic in our music without super expensive gear (the Oppo 205 was $1300). And the bean counters have to screw it up for everyone due to their worship of faulty radio station testing in the 80's.
Ouch! I haven't been very impressed with the 5.1 surround remixes from Marillion much at all to this point. Actually, I do enjoy Brave and parts of Afraid of Sunlight but the Fish albums have all been underwhelming, IMO. I still haven't ordered Fugazi yet, but will do so eventually as I'm a completist. I do enjoy the live concerts and the documentaries.
Are you expecting the DR value to be printed on the hype sticker? Most of this boxset buyers do not care about or even understand the meaning of DR values however a small bunch of fanatics do…
Hell, half the people I see talking about these things online call them 'remasters', so I doubt anything that advanced would register with them.
I was actually referring to the official download sites. I forgot that most people on this thread are probably buying physical product. I mostly post on the Hi-Rez download thread.
I generally really like the lyrics on Fugazi. ("Jigsaw" and "Punch & Judy" are especially good.) I also like the more (paradoxically) "sober" lyrical style on Clutching At Straws but it's the semantically intoxicated style of the first three albums that got my attention.
I just listened to my original and the remix back to back (both vinyl). I listened to the remix first and the first thing I noticed was that the ‘Shock’ at the beginning of “Assassing” was almost muted. I first wondered if one of the speakers was out, when I realized they were ok I wondered if this part was unpopular with fans and that’s why it had been underplayed. I always liked it myself. Generally on my 1st listen I thought there were more familiar touchstones missing than there were unfamiliar surprises. On listening to the original mix directly after it was apparent that it sounded quite thin and toppy compared to the more beefy, warmer remix, however the original was more dynamic whereas the remix seemed to establish itself and then just stay. It’s too early to tell yet but I do like bits of both.
Received mine from Amazon today and just finished watching the documentaries. Lots of interesting insights into the pressures during the recording process, probably not unlike most bands experience with their second album, but with the singer and producer during lots of coke complicating the process (maybe also not that unusual!) IMO, musically, this is Marillion at their most intense and adventurous. Lyrically and vocally, it’s Fish at his most obtuse and expressive.
FWIW, the folks over at Quadraphonic Quad (who panned the Script remix) seem to have more positive feedback so far: Marillion "Fugazi" (Deluxe Edition out in September 2021!)
