Marillion in America-???

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by head_unit, Aug 23, 2019.

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  1. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    I admire Marillion as one of the few bands that traded out a highly iconic lead singer, totally reinvented themselves, and kept on to continuing success. Except, it seems, in America. Maybe it's just my own perception and I'm out of touch, but when Fish left it seemed they never got traction again?

    I have a hypothesis that they totally blew it choosing to play through Misplaced Childhood while opening for Rush, instead of a more dynamic mixed set maybe starting with "Assassing" and ending with "Market Square Heroes." Data point of one: in Chicago, initial cheers for "Kayleigh" and "Lavender" gave way to boredom and outright cheers when they were finishing. Not kudos cheers, cheers it was over. Truly sad, and I felt a totally wasted chance to get exposed to large numbers of possible fans (that audience was very positive to be seeing Marillion at the start of the set).

    Or, did the Hogarth stuff just not sell enough to fund touring over here? Or what???
     
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  2. lee59

    lee59 Member Envy

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    America has not been much of a prog-friendly market during Hogarth's era. Even with the currency exchange in their favor, prog bands from the UK and Europe can't reliably even break even by touring the US. And whenever they do make the trek, its a very localized or limited itinerary. There's probably only a dozen or so cities in the US where they can sell enough seats. I feel lucky to have seen them on their past two US tours because SF and LA have enough fans to make it worth their while.

    Fortunately, Marillion has a large enough and incredibly loyal international following to keep them going. And the commercial and critical success of 'F.E.A.R.' in the UK and in Europe is a good indication they're not ready to call it a day. Can't wait for their next move.
     
  3. Dingly Del Boy

    Dingly Del Boy Forum Resident

    Location:
    British Columbia
    TBH I'm not sure they were particularly well known or widely regarded anywhere in the post-Fish era. I like quite a bit of their stuff in the Hogarth era (well summarized in Best Live; FEAR, etc), but I'm sure for many it is an acquired taste and a bit pretentious (Real Tears for Sale, anyone?) - and not really representative of the Kayleigh period.
     
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  4. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    Yanks seemingly don't much like prog to a large degree (can't swig your beer to it, y'all, right ;)?); even with an arena-headlining metal act like Iron Maiden, there was some whinging and kickback from U.S. audiences over that band's magisterial Seventh Son of a Seventh Son album in 1988... "it's got keyboards on it!", "it's too proggy!", "Maiden have gone all Genesis!", etc. It sold half of what Somewhere in Time sold, and that album sold roughly half of what Powerslave sold, as I heard it.

    Now Maiden are so big again in the U.S. that they could burp into the microphone for an hour and people would still buy it... as much as people actually buy albums anymore!!!
     
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  5. Dingly Del Boy

    Dingly Del Boy Forum Resident

    Location:
    British Columbia
    Indeed. There is a massive prog movement (some would say revival) in Europe over the last decade with so many great bands producing outstanding music. Great to live in the time of Tidal, Bandcamp, Discogs etc. where it is all readily available.
     
  6. lee59

    lee59 Member Envy

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    They clicked for me post-Fish. I was in the camp of Gabriel/Genesis fans who figured Fish as a bit of a wannabe. I didn't really pay much attention to them until 'Marbles', which blew my mind. I've since developed an appreciation of the Fish era, 'Misplaced' and 'Clutching' in particular.

    Yeah, h can get a bit precious at times. But he means well in looking for things to write about, whereas Fish's drunken diatribes wear out their welcome in short order.
     
  7. lee59

    lee59 Member Envy

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Indeed!!!

    My prog collection has exploded exponentially since '95: Flower Kings, Gazpacho, Pineapple Thief, Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson, RPWL, Big Big Train, Moon Safari, Spock's Beard, Motorpsycho...and so much more. All amazing.
     
  8. Dingly Del Boy

    Dingly Del Boy Forum Resident

    Location:
    British Columbia
    Yup, I have all of these in my collection, along with Arena, Blind Ego (the guitarist from RPWL), Different Light, Freedom to Glide, Bad Dreams, Mystery, Glass Hammer, IQ, Cynic, Ayreon, Panic Room, Riverside, Mostly Autumn, Drifting Sun, Siiilk, Thank You Scientist, Opeth (more recent stuff is def. prog), Threshold, etc. etc. Great stuff.
     
  9. lee59

    lee59 Member Envy

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Nice! Airbag, Beardfish, Pure Reason Revolution, Touchstone, Flying Colors, Hakken?

    Nice to know there's other prog freaks here!
     
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  10. ytserush

    ytserush Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast US

    That gig opening for Rush was what turned me into a huge fan. I thought playing the entire album (well.. almost all of it) was awesome.

    Based on those performances that album is still my favorite album of all-time and I recall it got a pretty vocal response as there was a ton of Marillion fans at those two show I attended.

    I won't ever forget those gigs. Based on the shows I heard, they were even more enthusiastic in Canada.

    The fan base in the US is very small but very dedicated.

    I give them a ton of credit for releasing an album like that in 1985. Those in Europe seemed to get it, I don't think Capitol quite knew what to do with them in the US.

    Captiol promoted them a bit more after Fish left. Marillion seemed to play more gigs in the US between 1989 and 1992 than they probably have in all of the years after that combined.
     
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  11. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    But Marillion never had that much traction in the US to begin with. When they weren't opening for the likes of Rush, they were mostly doing clubs. If anything, I'm pleasantly surprised that Marillion have been able to hold onto a small but rabid fan base for so long here in the US.
     
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  12. ytserush

    ytserush Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast US

    There was an attempt to focus on the US for the Misplaced Childhood but I think it was abandoned but at the moment I can't recall why.
     
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  13. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    My guess would be that the band had become superstars in other territories and decided to focus their attention elsewhere. I do recall seeing "Kayleigh" on MTV quite a bit back in 1985 and I suspect if they had cultivated a more power ballad image, they may have made it here. But I'm kind of grateful that didn't happen!
     
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  14. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Other than maybe “Market Square Heroes” or “Garden Party” I don’t think much of their pre-MC output was as immediately memorable as that third record, even the non-singles.

    I’m not sure it’d have made a difference. I don’t know why, but a few bands have spoken on the difficulty of opening for Rush, like you’d think they’d be interested in prog or technical bands like Marillion or Mr. Big but they made it sound like Rush fans (at the time) weren’t interested in anything that wasn’t Rush.
     
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  15. Ghost of Ziggy

    Ghost of Ziggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hell
    Fish is great but Steve H is the man..
     
  16. Efus

    Efus Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    America supports plenty of prog music, just not second tiered stuff from the UK.

    Floyd, Yes and Genesis, all had/have audiences over here still.
    A lot of American prog is guitar based, we have plenty of it, and it doesnt play particularly well in Europe.
    Such is life.
     
  17. Diamond Dog

    Diamond Dog Cautionary Example

    It's a difficult concept for some to grasp but a band can be successful without America. Especially a band whose definition of success is unorthodox by "traditional" standards. Yes, the U.S. is The Big Kahuna but so what ?

    I recall reading an interview with H where he discusses their position in America. He said that they were still playing to the same number of people in the same places now in the US that they were decades ago but laughed that at least they weren't losing any ground. When I saw them in the spring in Montreal, there were people there from 26 countries. I would call that "success".

    D.D.
     
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  18. guyfromscene24

    guyfromscene24 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver
    Ya, the US seem to favor Kansas and Styx over groups like Marillion and Saga...
     
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  19. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    I think that was generally true; I remember a bunch of kids totally disinterested in Gary Moore. But the thing about at least the Chicago stop was that when they came out Marillion did get a very positive reception. Their set just wasn't energetic enough to sustain that.
     
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  20. RockAddict

    RockAddict Sanity is an illusion, just like democracy

    Location:
    UK
    I can't cite the link but a few years ago Marillion's manager posted that touring the USA was tricky on a number of fronts, including the US tax structure (don't know the details) and the hoops that had to be negotiated in the context of immigration requirements. It's one reason why convention weekends in NA are held in Canada rather than the USA.

    That's as much as I recall but the above factors are in keeping with statements by other UK based bands and artists who aren't "mega" acts.

    That said, a couple of UK based Floyd tribute bands do rather well in the USA, especially Brit Floyd who have gained enormous traction stateside - far more so than in the UK where, rightly or wrongly, Aussie Floyd are more widely seen as the go-to Floyd tribute show.
     
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  21. ChrisEfterklang

    ChrisEfterklang Forum Resident

    Location:
    the Netherlands
    That is the main reason but it also applies to the Fish era. There were and still are regional
    pockets where they could play but these days with all the insane visa requirements it is certainly not economically viable. That is why they do Canada and specifically Montreal cause there is still demand for them there.

    But it wasn’t viable in their big commercial heyday even when they got support from their label. That is why at some point US fans raised money to get the band over to the US which eventually happened in 1997. This was the moment the band realised the potential of the internet and crowdfunding of which they are the modern day pioneers (widely acknowledged in the music business as such).

    These days they pretty much know exactly where they should play thanks to lots of customer data through their website / webshop. And for those who live in countries where they don’t come there is the option to see at them at one of the bi-annual three day weekend shows / conventions. They started having one in the UK then moved the flagship convention to the Netherlands and next to that one they now have weekends in the UK, Canada, Portugal, Poland and Chile. The Dutch edition is the most expensive one as it includes accomodation on a big holiday park (all filled with fans from all over the world), the other ones you can make as expensive as you want it to be.
     
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  22. head_unit

    head_unit Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Yes, though I think it perhaps had more to do with the songs not being as immediately accessible/grab you as previous albums. Excepting "Can I Play With Madness" which I never liked but the band plays seemingly every time, barf. And "The Evil That Men Do" which is a great rouser.

    ...go to the shows...but you'd think they would play stadiums like Metallica if they were so popular. But they don't. They really can't sell those big venues? They do elsewhere. I don't mind smaller crowds but it puzzles me. (And OK yes the upcoming LA date is technically a stadium, but a weenie one at 22k, 2/3 the capacity of Alpine Valley in Wisconsin. It's not that much bigger than the old Irvine Meadows which was 17k IIRC).

    Maybe Marillion should open for Maiden, they could call it the M&M tour...they could all play in M&Ms costumes (no green ones!)...sponsorship galore...
     
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  23. The Hermit

    The Hermit Wavin' that magick glowstick since 1976

    You have to listen to Seventh Son as a collective whole rather than individual tracks; it's a concept album and works better when viewed as such. And the epic title track is easily one of the best things that Maiden have ever produced... terrific album from start to finish (even though the Maiden Formula was starting to become more apparent) and their last truly great album to boot... I just wish they'd continued with that prog influence for the next album, alas... they could have delivered a masterpiece if they'd really stretched themselves.

    Also, red M&M, green M&M... they all wind up the same colour in the end :cool:...
     
  24. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    Which is so unfortunate because as someone who loves keyboards

    My god the amount of concerts I've missed living across an ocean
     
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  25. In case of Styx and Kansas, both have continued to tour the US for years. That's part of their ongoing awareness. In case of Saga, I'll argue that the songs just aren't there. On the Loose aside, they are at least two tiers down.
     
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