Martin Scorsese Compares Marvel Superhero Films to "Theme Park Rides"

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    We agree on that. Definitely an exception in my view but he deserves the recognition he's now getting.
     
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  2. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California
    Phantom Menace has way too many boring parts for children, even if Jar Jar and Anakin spice up the proceedings in certain other parts.
     
  3. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    they're not and they are much fun! that's what they were intended for...what will Martin do when his nutbread wanna be gangster retires or is just too old to play a tough-guy? pretty much the same movie over and over, hmmm where did I hear this before?
     
  4. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    Andy is amazing if one has been following him all these years! Damn the guy is good...
     
  5. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    well if one grew up with them as a child they will still enjoy them as an adult...so I'd say they are made for all ages...
     
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  6. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Actually, that's his signature from the 90s onward. His earlier material isn't all that hyper-stylized, though it certainly contains stylistic flourishes. Furthermore, the dynamic between characters in films like "Goodfellas" and "Casino" are part of what make those films so timeless, even if it exists on the "surface level" (whatever that means--sorry Ray Liotta's character doesn't have more nuance or introspective moments). Whether or not it's your cup of tea is a completely different story.
     
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  7. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe Forum Resident

    That is reductive and dismissive. Pixar makes films that appeal to both children and adults, and as far as I'm concerned the Toy Story films are as deep an exploration of the human condition as any filmmaker has ever created. In Toy Story 2, Woody has to choose between immortality and being loved. The opening of Up was moving in a way that few films have ever accomplished, and Charlie Chaplin himself couldn't have delivered a more moving silent 4 minutes of film.

     
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  8. Jason Penick

    Jason Penick Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland, CA, USA
    Well, one of the Red Letter Media guys did refer to it as "Baby's First Taxi Driver".
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  9. bopdd

    bopdd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    You can save your 13-year-old boy response for the person who made that observation in the first place, though I'm glad it allotted you the opportunity to mention your wife for the 1000th time. And calling Kevin Feige an auteur is only a fair analogy in the absolute broadest and blandest sense of the concept, as impressive his achievements may be (and don't get me wrong, they are definitely impressive).

    Again, I think you're conflating terms and concepts without understanding these concepts at their cores. Marvel movies can be great works of (cough) art and technicality without being the product of "auteurism." That you're trying to place in the same boat as something like "Bicycle Thieves" or "400 Blows" or "Do the Right Thing" or "Goodfellas" (which you are doing by making these analogies) is borderline delusional.
     
  10. Frangelico

    Frangelico Forum Resident

    It depends on the film, but I think it is applicable to Raging Bull, Taxi Driver (less so) and KoC. Generally his big signature films. The short-lived HBO series Vinyl as well. Certainly not something like Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore.

    Goodfellas is a great film (10/10 for me) but Casino is pretty meh.
     
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  11. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sheboygan, WI
    I wish Scorcese would take one of these on. Or a Godzilla movie. He could bring a real sense of danger and excitement that they sort of lack, imo.

    Of all the superhero movies I've seen in the last 20 years or so (too many), the one that really resonates is the first "Hulk" directed by Ang Lee, somewhat crude FX nonwithstanding. Especially the 'comic book panel' approach to dividing the screen during some action sequences. That might have been a very effective approach to the kitchen sink mess/LOTR parody battle that concluded Avengers endgame. Too many characters with too much to do, as the film cut from one to another it sort of lost momentum imo. Seeing some of them simultaneously might have worked better
     
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  12. Knox Harrington

    Knox Harrington Well-Known Member

    Not being dismissive--or, not trying to. There can be masterpiece children's films and horrible adult films. There can be films that are aimed at children but with something for the parents. There are cartoons that are really only for adults and mature young adults (e.g. Grave of the Fireflies). That clip from Up is amazing!

    But I'm sorry, the whole guys and gals in underpants / tights flying around and saving the world is just a bridge too far for me (ok, that was dismissive). Or a large green man with anger management issues. These films are clearly made for, and marketed to, children. Many adults also love them. Great. I love the Hammer horror films, but also recognize they are completely juvenile and idiotic. Whether good or bad, Scorsese makes films about adult concerns. The MCU is largely about children's concerns with some adult stuff thrown in.
     
  13. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe Forum Resident

    I mention her because she's an extraordinary woman who has seen an awe-inspiring number of films - more than 500 in the theater so far this year. Her last few films included Takashi Miike, Abbas Kiarostami and Robert Bresson, but she's free of the snobbery that insists that only "art house films" are art.
    This is a web discussion forum, not Cahiers du Cinéma and I doubt I would be interested if it were.
    Film is far too collaborative a medium for auteur theory to be valid today, if it ever were.
     
  14. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident


    agree with all this!
    I don't think Goodfellas is his best... Still Taxi Driver for me. GF is enjoyable though


    im not sure what this means but im sure I disagree with it


    always thought alice doesn't live here anymore was a terrific film, the great Mott the Hoople opening.. ellen seeing her singing dreams crushed and working at that dumpy diner...but then bonding with Alice and Vera and Mel. gets involved with psycho bf from hell Keitel.....till she finally meets Kris.....and the side story with the kid (fun fact he played young woody allen in love and death) and crazy Jodie Foster "so long, suckers!" loved that line. I should see that again/
     
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  15. Knox Harrington

    Knox Harrington Well-Known Member

    Here's another test: if the main characters have action figures that are sold in toy stores, then the movie is likely a children's movie.
     
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  16. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark But I'm innocent! Swan stole my music & framed me!

    Location:
    Iowa
    One slight correction to your otherwise spot on comment, & it involves a gangster film, but not a Scorese one.

    When I was ten my parents took me with them to see The Godfather in 1972. I was literally mesmerized completely. I think this was the film that awakened an understanding in me that films could be great. Now, prior to this they took me to see such other classics as Bonnie & Clyde, Gone With The Wind & 2001. So, I was already seeing movies above my age, but in my case, not my maturity level. In many was I was always mentally, psychologically & emotionally very mature for my age growing up. I was able to enjoy them on a visceral level & still grasp some of the concepts that might be above the typical child of my ages when I saw these movies in the theater. As I got older, subsequent viewings allowed me to better grasp the concepts that did elude me as a child.

    When I was thirteen my dad & I went to see The Godfather Part II & enjoyed it as much, if not more than the original. It was movies like these that started my lifelong love of the cinema, in all it's forms, from trashy drive in fodder to high art.

    But, I've always been a bit leery of most "high concept" films. Perhaps that's one reason why comic book movies & the like hold little/no appeal for me. High concept movies too often remind me of an attempt to make the low budget exploitation movies I enjoy into something perceived as more substantial than they actually are. And that could be why the thirteen year old boys they're aimed at find some sort of deep meaning in them.
     
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  17. Knox Harrington

    Knox Harrington Well-Known Member

    That's interesting. I remember when I first saw Blade Runner at around age 10, I completely did not see any moral ambiguity there. I simply wanted Han Solo to kill the evil robots. At the same time, I sensed that I was missing something. When I saw it again at 18, it was a completely different movie. I was amazed.

    I'm with you on the Godfather movies. I basically had the same experience that you describe.

    Completely agree. Joker is Exhibit A for this. Also, the amount of money spent and sophistication that goes into the marketing of these movies to young kids these days is extremely disturbing. It's way beyond what I was exposed to in the 70s and 80s. And, it's no longer enough to be a good popcorn movie, the comic book movie now must be considered "Cinema" and worthy of the highest praise. Afterall, we don't want to be ignorant snobs like Martin Scorsese. Sure Marlon Brando was good in the Godfather, but what about Eric Bana's breathtaking performance in The Hulk?
     
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  18. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Sounds elitist and smug to me. It's a decision that only "auteurs" make "cinema"... :sigh:
     
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  19. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    It's astonishing how many directors now steal from the "GoodFellas" version of Scorsese.

    I saw "Hustlers" a few weeks back, and it's a shameless copy of that style. It's really "GoodFellas" with strippers!
     
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  20. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Agree 100% - I don't understand the cult of "Casino" at all.

    It's basically Scorsese's attempt to remake his own film - and it feels uninspired...
     
  21. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe Forum Resident

    One of the many reasons I firmly reject the term "cinéaste."
     
  22. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I'd almost certainly place "TD" as Scorsese's second-best movie. I just don't get pulled into it like I do "GF", but it's probably the better film in an objective sense.

    It's a much better character study, but it's not as compulsively watchable...
     
  23. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe Forum Resident

    I just listened to a Director's Guild podcast on that film, and the intention originally was to try to get him to direct it.
     
  24. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California
    Diasagree. Joe Pesci constantly dropping f bombs is the height of juvenile and idiotic and actually detracts from engaging in substantial dialogue. Also, George Lucas and Walter Murch using rock 'n roll hits as a soundtrack was fresh in 1973. Not so fresh in 1990 when Scorsese leaned on that crutch.
     
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  25. Knox Harrington

    Knox Harrington Well-Known Member

    It's not really countering the argument to call someone "elitist" and "smug." You do not believe that there is any difference between the MCU and Fellini, Bergman, etc.? They're all "cinema"? Ant Man and La Dolce Vita, both operating at the same level? To say different is "elitist" and "smug"?
     
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