Martin Scorsese Compares Marvel Superhero Films to "Theme Park Rides"

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. I get it. I’ve never been fond of Fellini or Wertmuller but I wouldn’t want to see them removed from the world either. To each his or her own. I watched the first Crank film and enjoyed it but couldn’t be bothered after having seen the second if they produced a third one.

    The Ghostrider films are so awful but the cheese factor certainly make them fun as bad films. Same with most of the DC slate of films although, surprisingly, I enjoyed Man of Steel precisely because it wasn’t like Donner’s Superman. The one thing I,do respect about the Marvel films are that, good or bad the MCU films (the ones starting with iron Man) try not to make bad movies but do the source material justice. As to each attempt, some are better than others (Iron Man 2 is a bust except for Black Widow and Nick Furay and the second Thor film just isn’t very good except for what Huddleston brings to the film).
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
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  2. After Toy Story 3 it strikes me as a law of diminishing returns. I can’t stand the Cars films myself but my kids enjoyed them.
     
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  3. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark I'm supposed to put something witty here....

    Location:
    Iowa
    I felt exactly the same about TS3 vs TS4. They should have stopped at TS3 & ended on what was to me, a perfect note. If they dream up a TS5, I don't plan to see it.

    Being from right outside Charlotte NC, being a car/racing nut all my life, & quite literally growing up immersed in NASCAR, (there are drivers I knew well & hing out with, along with crew chiefs, mechanics, & through my half sister on my mom's side I knew the head engine builder for HMS, who was my sister's cousin on her dad's side), so I was a natural audience member for Cars. I enjoyed it for what it was, but that was all. I was leery of Cars 2 even before it was released, & the reviews steered me away from it. By the time of Cars 3 what interest I had in the franchise had dissolved completely.

    One problem I have with a lot of Pixar, (& other films of the same ilk, including comic book based ones to an extent), is this; I know that all forms of entertainment are designed in some way to play on & manipulate us on visceral & emotional levels, & I have no problem with that. It's when the attempts to do so in a high concept major studio film are so blatant, crude & obvious that it annoys me, & lessens my enjoyment of the movie.

    Movies like Tender Mercies, Three Billboards Outside Ebbing Missouri or Hell & High Water, (along with many of Scorsese's films), achieve the same results, but on a more adult & subtle level that's much more satisfying to me.
     
  4. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I was listening to an interview years ago at the Hogan Jazz Archive here in New Orleans, done with jazz pianist Ellis Marsalis in (I think) the 1980s. The interviewer asked him about an old comment Marsalis had made putting down R&B musicians in the 50s playing more popular styles and betraying their jazz roots (I'm paraphrasing). Marsalis responded that he didn't think that way anymore and understood that people had to make a living. He'd gotten older, he'd mellowed a bit, he seemed to have a sense that his opinion wasn't the only one that mattered.

    Scorcese should know better than to take such an elitist position. I agree with @Chris DeVoe that Roger Ebert would have put him in his place.
     
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  5. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    "I've seen 2 MCU films but I still know for a FACT the 20+ others are inane!" :rolleyes:
     
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  6. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark I'm supposed to put something witty here....

    Location:
    Iowa
    No, I've seen seven, which is a broad enough selection to confirm that for me at least, the entire conglomeration is inane. YMMV of course, & if you like these movies, hooray. My cinematic tastes are just different. Not better, not more refined, merely different. But please do forgive me for having a differing viewpoint. I suppose that it's far better that we all march in lockstep chanting our undying praises for the MCU, without which our existence would be barren & void of pleasure..... :rolleyes:

    And for the record, I'd rather watch a single Scorsese film, (personal preferences would be King Of Comedy, Raging Bull or Goodfellas, but I'll even take Bringing Out The Dead), than be subjected to any more comic book based "entertainment".
     
  7. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    No, you haven't. You said you saw the 3 Raimi Spideys, the 3 Ghost Rider flicks and the 1st 2 Iron Man movies.

    Only the last 2 are MCU flicks. The others include Marvel characters but they're not MCU.

    Your POV might be better received if it didn't drop with arrogance and condescension. Toss is that "YMMV" to cover your butt if ya want, but the last sentence of your post invalidates any stabs in that direction...
     
  8. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark I'm supposed to put something witty here....

    Location:
    Iowa
    Sorry, but when I get a reply such as the one you initially made, which indeed was dripping with just as much arrogance & condescension, I tend to respond in kind...

    And, I made it clear in another post that I count all of them as part of the MCU, simply because they are all from the same source material. I don't have the interest, patience nor desire to sit & parse all the reboots, reimaginings, sequels, crossovers, yadda, yadda, yadda, from each other. Again, if you or anyone else likes them, hooray. Enjoy them all you like. I find the entire sub genre, (& I include the DC films in that as well), to be insufferably boring & lacking in most cinematic virtues, at least the ones of interest to me, other than the small handful I mentioned that I enjoyed, (first two Spideys by Raimi & the Nolan Batman trilogy), & the rest? Y'all can have them.
     
  9. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Let's agree to disagree. I see what I see.
     
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  10. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    like his opinion is going to make anyone stop watching...his opinion is just that...his.
     
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  11. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    TRUE! but, I get and enjoy them all...IMO, age has nothing to do with it to enjoy them.
     
  12. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    he needs to re-analyse his relationship with that nutcake DiNiro...
     
  13. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Did you see what I posted of the films playing at a perfectly typical AMC theater? If Chicago is too hoity-toity for you, here's the films at the AMC Studio 28 in Lenexa KS

    1. Joker
    2. Abominable
    3. Downton Abbey
    4. Hustlers
    5. Rambo: Last Blood
    6. Ad Astra
    7. IT Chapter Two
    8. Judy
    9. Good Boys
    10. The Lion King
    11. Angel Has Fallen
    12. The Peanut Butter Falcon
    13. Fast & Furious Presents: Hobbs & Shaw
    14. Overcomer
    15. Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark
    16. Dora and the Lost City of Gold
    17. War
    18. Sye Raa Narasimha Reddy
    19. Brittany Runs a Marathon
    20. The Angry Birds Movie 2
    21. Dream Girl
    28 auditoriums, 21 different films. 3 Indian films (#17 #18 #21), one Christian (#14), 2 animated films (#2 #20) and 2 films based on previous films (#5 and #13). Everything else is a live-action Hollywood or Indie film, and the only one with any connection to a comic book is Joker.

    You're entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

    P.S. I've seen eight of these films (4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 19). I'd recommend Hustlers, Brittany Runs a Marathon, The Peanut Butter Falcon and Good Boys.
     
  14. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    The analogy of rides is good and rather pointed. This isn't a simple "I think they all suck" but rather a well worded personal reflection that reflects how mindless most of them have gotten as this seemingly unending trend of superhero films has gone on and on and on. Coming from a true film historian it is even deeper cutting because I understand just exactly what he means.

    I've gotten sick of them myself and tuned out a few years ago. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with a movie simply doing its job and being enjoyable-but I cannot even get that out of these modern productions. If everyone else can then I'm the odd one out.
    And this is coming from a lifelong defender of certain 80-90's comic film adaptations with undeserved lesser reputations.

    As for Color of Money that really was in his "I need to get financing for Last Temptation to get off the ground again" phase and is a good solid film if examined closely. Personally I still like to hear him in interviews and read of his Film Foundation work but think creatively there was a massive downturn after Bringing Out the Dead-but that's just my own personal opinion.

    As far as modern superhero adaptations go I will say that I was bowled over and amazed by what Insomniac did on the PS4 game. I think it's not only the best superhero adaptation in years but the best Spiderman movie ever made (though I very much enjoy the first Raimi picture)-and it's a game!
    Why is it so great? It takes actual risks and still stays true to the inner spirit of the characters!
     
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    I'm just reporting what the major Hollywood studios release, not what the minor indie distributors send out to 100 small theaters around the country. (And there are three or four very nice indie theaters within 10 miles of my house.) I work on tons and tons of indie projects and make a good chunk of my living on them, but I'm not blind to what the reality is in Hollywoo. So in that respect, I think Scorsese has a point, and that's why I started this thread in the first place.

    I do think that a lot of the indie market that disappeared has moved to streaming video (Netflix, Hulu, Apple, Amazon, etc.), and so filmmakers specializing in human drama, romance, comedy, historical drama, mysteries, horror, and so on can develop TV shows that cover these same subjects and can succeed commercially. In other words, "streaming is the new indie filmmaking," in a lot of ways. The 2015 Lynda Obst book -- which confirms everything I'm saying -- predicts the same thing.
     
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  16. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    and that does not make him WRONG.

    nor, does it make him RIGHT.

    most people at this forum do not understand the word 'opinion'.

    you can disagree with one's opinion in a healthy conversation, but you should never admonish, belittle, or abuse anyone for their opinion.

    i, for one, agree with scorcese's opinion, enough of the comic book movies. let's start making adult drama and comedy movie again.
     
  17. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    I think he was really looking to appeal to the empathy of those who agreed with him, rather than joust with those who do not. He would be very much at home in this online community. I could post a pronouncement on just about any subject here that would get resounding huzzahh's here, or the ol' "eff ya!". But there will always be those who will try to undercut your position with a paltry, "uh, you spelled 'prodigy' wrong", rather than really try to engage you on the level of your point.

    So sure, I can point out some comics that undercut his general anxieties, and some movies that undercut his specific criticisms, and some of his own films that don't pass muster with his own criteria. What he's really not telling you though, is what the actual gameplan of the films of the MCU do to his own ability to make astonishing cinema via his own gameplan, and I have more than a little suspicion that's closer to what's grinding his gears than whether Disney has more access to Scarlett Johansson and a bazillion other a-listers than he does to do stunt scenes.

    Perhaps he's just mad because he's got kids on his lawn, and they're making a better use of it than he is.
     
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  18. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    I'm not talking about tiny indie theaters, I listed the films playing at two different AMC theaters, America's largest movie chain. If I listed the films playing at the Gene Siskel Film Center or the Music Box or Facets, you might have a point. No, these were small films playing at completely average theaters.

    I could go pick some smaller theaters, but even the case of the rather shabby Regal City North 14, they have the most popular films, plus a tiny indie called El Coyote and an anime film called Pronate.

    You may feel that there's nothing but event films out there, but the truth is contrary to your feelings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  19. Chris DeVoe

    Chris DeVoe RIP Vickie Mapes Williams (aka Equipoise)

    Argh!

    As I've taken considerable pain to point out, they are out there. The problem is, everybody - seemingly even people who work in the industry - has this belief that is contrary to reality, that they don't make dramas and they don't make comedies.

    They do, and as I have done multiple times over the past several years, I can supply a simple set of theater listings that show that, on any given week, there are plenty of other films out there.

    And every time I do, everybody just seems to ignore the facts and restate their opinion.

    On an earlier post I mentioned four films currently playing in the theater:
    1. Hustlers
    2. Brittany Runs a Marathon
    3. The Peanut Butter Falcon
    4. Good Boys
    Hustlers is a drama about a group of women at a strip club hustling Wall Street "Masters of the Universe." It's exactly the sort of film Martin Scorsese could have made in the 90s, including an amazing performance by Jennifer Lopez.

    Brittany Runs a Marathon is a comedy about an overweight Gen X screw up who decides to turn her life around and run a marathon.

    The Peanut Butter Falcon stars a young actor with Down Syndrome, playing a character obsessed with wrestling who runs away from the nursing home trying to find this wrestling school that he saw advertised on TV.

    Good Boys is an R-rated comedy starring a bunch of 12 year old boys, sort of a Seth Rogen film starring preteens. It was very smutty and hilarious and I about laughed myself sick.

    None of these are superhero films. All of them are playing in the theaters currently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  20. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    and that's your opinion of which I perfectly understand. ; )
     
  21. Laibach

    Laibach Forum Resident

    With all due respect we don’t need Mr. Scorsese to tell us what we already knew, no need to signal the obvious.
     
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  22. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Last truly great Scorsese film ( imo) was 24 years ago with Casino.
     
  23. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR! Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    The reviews on Scorsese's upcoming The Irishman are through-the-roof positive. I would be very surprised if it gets less than a half-dozen Oscar nominations.
     
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  24. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    There’s a Irishman ensemble cast interview Joe Pesci seems to be partially deaf. MS mentions why he’s never worked with Al Pacino before. Marty does mention he seen a play Al directed in 1970. Pacino is very funny/ enthusiastic during the interview, especially talking about the cgi. What I’ve seen of a couple of Irishman clips the deaging doesn’t look as effective as MCU Iron Man for example.
     
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  25. Pizza

    Pizza With extra pepperoni

    Location:
    USA
    I feel it’s very appropriate for someone working in the film biz to discuss the film biz.
     
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