Martin Scorsese Compares Marvel Superhero Films to "Theme Park Rides"

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vidiot, Oct 5, 2019.

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  1. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Clint Eastwood ever get involved with MCU?

    Robert Redford did.
     
  2. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Didn’t Marty not enjoy Walt Disney films as a kid?
     
  3. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    1. You have zero credibility if you criticise something you have never seen

    2. Complete lack of respect for one Director to slag off the work of other directors/creators. If you say ‘not really my thing’ and leave it like that that’s ok

    3. Not every film has to be an in-depth look into someone’s soul? Can’t there be just big fun films to enjoy?

    4. What is the definition of ‘cinema’ after all and who decides what it is? Scorsese?

    5. It would be a very boring world if all films were the same. Variety is a good thing.
     
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  4. Sandorelli

    Sandorelli Forum Resident

    Location:
    Us
    I think he was actually being generous in comparing them to theme park rides, which implies some sort of entertainment. One can tell he was looking at them from the view of the craftsman, comparing the chaotic editing style to jostles and jolts of a roller coaster. The only thing lacking was that breathless sweep of going over the edge which would require more of an emotional commitment from the filmmakers that they’re capable of giving. Also, even though films are sometimes aimed at young audiences, one would hope they at least had a camp quality like the sci fi and horror genres of the 50s, rather than the incomprehensible animation that doesn’t even give you time to register what you’re seeing. These films are not just consumed by young people, but by a large part of the movie going public. Using the comic book comparison, imagine such a large part of the reading publicc reading mostly comic books..., but who needs to read comic books when you have these movies?
     
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  5. Sandorelli

    Sandorelli Forum Resident

    Location:
    Us
    You compare Transformers 3 to Snow
    White And the Seven Dwarves?
     
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  6. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    My comment was sarcastic. You painted a long series of films you've not seen with a broad brush, and that merited a sarcastic response.

    You saw 2 MCU movies but declared all the rest are "inane". That's like saying "I heard 'Beatles for Sale' so I know exactly what the rest of the band's music will be!"



    "MCU" has a very specific meaning, and it's not "all movies adapted from Marvel properties".

    You want to ignore this and come up with your own definition to make it sound like you have more experience with the MCU than you do, but it's still wrong.

    And you're more than welcome to dislike various comic book movies and not want to see them, but your denunciation of them goes far beyond "not my cup" into smug "they're not cinema" territory...
     
  7. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Fully agree with him. Superhero films = flashy vapid crap.
     
  8. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I'd argue it's a pretty superficial movie if examined closely. I loved "CoM" back in the 80s but when I saw it again early 2000s, I found myself extremely disappointed.

    It's basically a remake of "The Hustler" but with that 80s rah-rah "we're #1" tone. It loses all the depth and drama of the original so Eddie can be a winner this time...
     
  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    All wrong, except for #5.

    1. I don't need to see all Fast & Furious movies to know that I'll utterly hate them.

    2. Directors are regular people with opinions. You don't have to like those opinions but they are entitled to them... and they don't need your approval to post them.

    3. There can be some fun films without them being deep but an entire genre of movies has taken hold of (seemingly) the majority of high-profile releases and they do nothing to elevate themselves beyond the flashy vapid crap that I've seen. Closest one was Split. That was actually good... but a superhero movie, it is not.

    4. Highbrow art is what he is about and I fully endorse him for being who he is. I wouldn't have expected Tolkien to exercise the same level of respect for a work of his caliber than he would for Garfield.
     
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  10. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    None of your points are valid imo.

    On a more general note all US directors join the Directors Guild of America, who vote for example on who should win the Oscar, and do other work. As a guild it's considered poor form to criticise the work of other members. Of course you can have an opinion but generally it's best, if you don't like something, to keep quiet rather than slag off the work of a fellow director. Remember he's not a film critic. We have also had other aging directors like Cameron chime in. Maybe it's jealousy, I don't know. But it is very rude and against the ethos of the guild to come out and say stuff like this, especially as it's so ill-informed.
     
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  11. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, there. Terrific counterargument. :laugh:
     
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  12. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Comparing films in one specific movie series to films in an extremely broad genre seems like an enormous stretch.

    Yes, if you see a couple "F&F" movies and don't like them, it's fair to assume you won't like the rest. Though those movies have changed so much across their run that they're barely related any more, it's still pretty safe to skip the others.

    And if you see, say, "Batman Begins" and don't like it, it's fair to assume you won't like the other films in that series.

    But "comic book movies" is such an enormous and wide genre that it makes no sense to me to assume you'll dislike all of them.

    "Comic book movies" isn't a genre in the true sense of the term - ie, a group of films with similar themes or concepts.

    Even just within the MCU, we've seen a broad array of distinct genres explored. "Winter Soldier" is essentially a 70s thriller, whereas "Guardians" is more like a sci-fi space opera. "Joker" is a dark character study.

    And so on. All come from a comic book source but that's all they share...
     
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  13. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    He dislikes a particular genre and his opinion is hardly novel. (For example, I took a college film course and the main textbook essentially ended its coverage of American film after the seventies, as it was no longer worth discussing except in passing.) Scorsese didn't slag specific directors or films, but because he didn't get personal and specific, he's accused of not knowing every example of the genre. Catch-22.

    Scorsese came of age during a golden era of American film when directors were attempting to do serious work on serious themes, which came to a crashing halt after the accountants tallied up the receipts for JAWS and STAR WARS while several years later HEAVEN'S GATE sank United Artists. The entire Hollywood ecosystem became increasingly dominated by franchises, while genuine artistic ambition was increasingly relegated to subscription series.

    I'm fine that THE WIRE will probably be the best filmed narrative I'll ever watch, but for someone like Scorsese, it probably hurts that it was not a shared communal experience in a movie house.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  14. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo, Endless Mikelovemoney

    Guardians of the Galaxy is hilarious. Someone involved has a good sense of humor. It never felt like someone was beating the viewer over the head with comic book movie tropes. A few interesting characters, and not just non-stop action. Some good dialogue and jokes.
     
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  15. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    bout time

    :tiphat:
     
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  16. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    from what i have read it will be an impossible task to choose which of the 4 should get the nominations.

    i read one article that said both deniro and pacino for best actor and both keitel and pesci for supporting.

    pesci has been gone a long time, 2010 was his last movie that he acted in, he did some voices in a couple after that, but no acting.
     
  17. Bradd

    Bradd Now’s The Time

    Location:
    Chester, NJ
    You can enjoy a variety of movies without thinking that you have to like one type and hate the other. In other words it’s not a zero sum game. My son has dragged me to the Marvel movies and I generally enjoy them. However, I also enjoy more seriously made movies as well. He’s right but also wrong st the same time. I’m sure the Irishman will be a fantastic movie.
     
  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Best actor ? De Niro’s in the film all the way through. Al Pacino in the film about 30 minutes in..though chews up the scenery from the clip I seen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  19. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    so you've seen it?

    tell us more...........................
     
  20. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    YouTube The Irishman ensemble cast interview. Al Pacino discusses the film. A lot on de aging process, body movement.Marty, Bobby, Joe also present. Joe‘s a little deaf. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  21. Complier

    Complier Senior Member

    Location:
    Harrisburg, PA
    Not sure what all of the fuss is about concerning Mr. Scorsese's comments as he did not say one derogatory thing about the Beatles.
     
  22. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark I'm supposed to put something witty here....

    Location:
    Iowa
    Good Christ are you always this incredibly pedantic? I'm not saying this is you, but right now, you're coming across like a middle age geek with a fanboy crush on these things, still living in his mother's basement. Again, I'm not say that's you, (especially since I have no knowledge about your life), but that's the vibe you're putting off here.

    I get your feelings about the MCU. I simply just don't care about it. The reason I call them all MCU films is because all the characters are a part of the Marvel Universe, so just like when I read the comics in the 70s, to me it's all one & the same. It's not a matter of whether I want to make it sound like I have more experience with the MCU, because it just doesn't matter to me.

    Bottom line, they are comic book based movies, no matter how one slices, dices & parse them, from the same publisher, & are a part of the same publisher's universe.

    Now please, can you just let it drop? I honestly don't give a crap about them, & I've wasted enough time on something so inane & trifling, at least to me.
     
  23. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark I'm supposed to put something witty here....

    Location:
    Iowa
    But since he tends to use the Stones' music in his movies, I'm sure someone here could find that a thinly veiled insult to the Fab Four, simply by omission. Give them time.... :D :biglaugh:
     
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  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    So in response to the valid point that you probably ought not be commenting on films you haven't seen you make ad hominem attacks and then declare repeatedly that you don't care about them. Which again begs the question why you're commenting on them at all.
     
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  25. Bluesman Mark

    Bluesman Mark I'm supposed to put something witty here....

    Location:
    Iowa
    Oh God, can I ever atone for forming an opinion about a film genre, (& NOT just the MCU films), after watching enough of those movies to realize that they simply weren't for me!?! I'm sorry that I haven't watched each of those films back to back to back, multiple times, both with the commentary on & off, in order to fully grasp their thematic concepts.

    In case it's misinterpreted, the above was sarcasm.

    Now, believe it or not, I get the appreciation many have for this genre, I really do. Not everything I watch are art films or something highbrow. My cinema tastes are eclectic & encompass a wide variety of genres & levels of quality. I freely admit to an unhealthy obsession with 60s/70s exploitation/drive in flicks, especially the sleazy Eurotrash horror movies of that era. But, you will never see me herald these as important or great films, or say that they should be compared to the films of Scorsese.

    Hell, there's no way I'll say that something like Count Dracula's Great Love, or Dr Jekyll Vs The Wolfman, or Night Of Bloody Horror is even up the the level of something as wretched as Ghost Rider; Spirit Of Vengeance, let alone something as acclaimed as Black Panther. But, by the same token, I don't let myself get all bent out of shape is someone with less knowledge of films like those view 1-2, & decide that such movies aren't for them & have a disdain for the entire sub genre I love. And I don't try to convince them that their opinion is invalid because they haven't slavishly watched all the films, or that they're wrong because I have to parse their comments to pieces to find things I disagree with them about those movies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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