Marvel Studios' Black Widow - Official Teaser Trailer

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by marmalade166, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't think so. Most of the Marvel origin movies follow their comic book origins pretty closely. And Robocop had Verhoeven's over-the-top, satirical humor. The Marvel movies tend to have slapstick or verbal humor, not much satire. Robocop is a tragic hero story, like Frankenstein, Swamp Thing, Darkman. It's part monster movie. His origin destroyed his body, his memories, and separated him from his wife and child. It's not a theme the MCU does with its characters much. Some similar stuff came up in Black Widow, but not to that much of an extent. Most of the MCU heroes are clearly happier and better off after their origins are told. Even with the Hulk, they haven't gone for any of the pathos even seen on the old TV series, and he gets more cheerful in each successive movie. The concept that he has this beast inside him that can break out into a rage at any minute and hurt even the people he loves isn't there.

    Wolverine's origin story as detailed in the comics bears some resemblance to the Robocop story (losing his memories, being rebuilt by the government as a weapon). I'm not sure if those details about Wolverine were defined before or after 1987.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  2. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    Who cares? It’s still a super hero origin story. It doesn’t need to conform entirely 100% to any of the Marvel movies. That is patently ridiculous. The structure is there. The structure fits with the MCU a hell of a lot better than the patchwork multi-story presentation of Sin City that’s for sure. You seem very pre-occupied with non essential details of story telling.
     
  3. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    I liked it better than TDK for several reasons. Bane was a better villain who held Gotham hostage and posed a greater threat than Joker. His story also tied together the Batman Begins story. But more importantly, the myth of the child emerging from the prison was compelling to me on a spiritual level that was lacking in TDK. Nolan did a good job showing Bruce Wayne overcome his demons to emerge. Could it have been stronger? Probably, but I was impressed. I liked the Catwoman story and how Anne Hathaway handled her role, the Robin story and how the ending showed him rising as the Dark Knight to pay off the entire trilogy and have it come full circle. The large sets, camerawork, handling of extras and overall direction and editing was the best of the trilogy, I thought. I wasn't bothered by any plot holes.

    You're right about the MCU villains--and I forgot to mention Cate Blanchett's performance as Hela, which was pretty great.
     
  4. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I'm telling why your theory that RoboCop inspired the superhero movies of the 21st century more than Superman did is highly unlikely. We can also add in the actual quotes from guys like Nolan and Feige who say they were inspired by Donner's Superman. Those two have either met him for interviews that can be watched on YouTube or worked with him. I haven't seen any of these filmmakers referencing RoboCop as an inspiration. If you have evidence to back up your theory, then offer it. I gave you a little help with the RoboCop/Frank Miller/Sin City connection and you're not even willing to use that to support your case. Just trying to help you out, because your strange theory needs all the help it can get.

    I agree Dark Knight Rises had a lot going for it, especially the far superior action, effects and cinematography compared to the previous two Batman films. But Catwoman was the weak link. She was an awful portrayal of the character. The casting choice and the way she was written made her seem more like Batgirl. She's a villain, yet she spent most of the movie working with Batman. Such a WTF choice there. And Hathaway's performance was totally lackluster, much closer to MCU sitcom-style acting than the typically more deeply felt Nolan and DCEU performances.
     
  5. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    Yep, I see your point. Nolan chose to make her more akin to Batgirl in that respect, which worked for me. The character had embraced a life of crime from an early age without having a lot of choices or understanding the consequences. She was then motivated to erase her record. This made her susceptible to manipulation by criminals making false promises and also uniquely situated and motivated to work with Batman as you say. Her performance was unsentimental -- a more deeply felt performance would not be true to the character. Bruce bonded with her out of a shared desire to erase the past and disappear together in a life that previously eluded them. It was also the life Alfred had wanted for Bruce, which made for a nice moment in the closing scenes.
     
  6. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    Thanks for the “help” but I don’t need it. It isn’t a theory, it’s an opinion. I never said that Superman wasn’t an influence, but when I look at the modern day super hero movie I see more Robocop than Superman. That’s just the way it is. I don’t require your or any film director’s opinion to validate what I see. Verhoeven’s influence is there whether they choose to acknowledge it or not.
     
  7. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Theater owners are standing up for themselves over the Black Widow box office decline. They're citing Disney+ password-sharing and piracy as partly responsible for Black Widow's rapid decline at the box office. Curiously, the unmentioned elephant in the room is Disney+ getting 100% of that streaming revenue with the theaters cut out entirely. Disney sources here are disingenuous in saying they just want to "help" consumers see the movie. If that was their only motivation, they'd share the streaming revenue with the theaters. The article is not wrong though in saying even movies with no digital release are declining rapidly this summer, like Fast and Furious. More movie buffs are coming back to the theaters for opening weekend, but the casual people just looking for something to do are still staying home in greater proportions. This despite there having been no reports to my knowledge of a virus spread happening at a movie theater throughout the pandemic, even with China keeping their movie theaters open throughout it.

    ‘Black Widow’: Theater Owners Blast Disney+ for Steep Drop – The Hollywood Reporter

    Also, a new article on payments comic creators receive from movie studios. Len Wein was paid more money in royalties for Lucius Fox than he was for Wolverine:

    Marvel, DC Offer ‘Shut Up Money’ As Comic Creators Go Public – The Hollywood Reporter
     
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  8. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

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  9. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Even though I like the movie he was introduced in a lot, the Winter Soldier was a really boring character in the movies. There's no depth there and nothing memorable about his personality or dialogue. So I don't know how much money he really deserves. No one went to see those movies because of how cool the Winter Soldier was. LOL. I don't watch the Disney+ shows so I don't know how he was there.
     
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  10. Daniel Plainview

    Daniel Plainview God's Lonely Man

    I came out of comic book retirement for Ed Brubaker's run on "Captain America" in 2004. I casually flipped through issue number one in the supermarket, and, having time to kill at a hotel, decided I would buy it to pass the time. I got hooked, and for a couple dozen issues the book was damn good. And even though I didn't like the idea of Bucky being resurrected, the story was so well done that I ultimately accepted it.

    Of course, it wasn't long before Marvel had to do some massive crossover event (Civil War) that I wasn't interested in following and ruined the books momentum (not to mention they "killed" Steve Rogers") so I eventually lost interest as there were too many hoops to jump through to keep up (plus the book was renumbered, like, four times in the three years I was a reader). So I quit. For good this time.

    Having read the stories, I can say that there is a lot of Ed Brubaker's work up there on the screen. And while I understand Marvel's "for hire" policy when it comes to their writers and artists, I also think it's pretty crappy that they can make dump trucks full of money on these films and tv shows and not give a reasonable piece of that money to the writers and artists who's work in the comics is being adapted to the big (or small) screen.

    Regardless of whether or not the Winter Soldier character is that interesting in the films (he's not), the comic book creative team are very obviously the architects of this character's particular story and should get some sort of compensation and/or credit for this work.

    Was Jim Starlin paid properly for "Infinity War"? I mean, Thanos' quest for the infinity stones and the big snap was his baby. At least they gave him a cameo in "Endgame". I leaped out of my seat in the theater when I spotted him.
     
  11. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Starlin renegotiated for Thanos and says he's happy in that article. Before that he was making more money off of something from DC than for three of the Guardians of the Galaxy characters. I think another writer who said he had a cameo like that in a Marvel movie said he makes more residuals off the cameo than off his character appearing in the movie.
     
  12. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Is there anything in your life at all that you get joy out of?
     
  13. Matthew

    Matthew Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jammin' at Sun
    Perhaps, but I still don't line up my thinking with that. I think the pricing is absurd, but if two million people paid $30 for Black Widow to watch at home on whatever setup they happen to have, what do I know?
     
  14. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    I certainly wouldn't do it. The only way my kids will watch a movie with me is if I take them to the theater because if we watch it at home they are constantly distracted by their phones. Spending the $30 would just be a waste.
     
  15. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

  16. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    And if only 2% of Disney+ subscribers watched it, who are all these subscribers? The Marvel movies are by far Disney's biggest at the box office. Even if you double that number to cover Star Wars fan subscribers, that leaves 96%. Are most of their subscribers just parents who are buying it for their kids to watch cartoons on?
     
  17. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    I don’t know. People like me? Just because someone subscribes to their service doesn’t mean they want to shell out extra for a movie that will likely be free by the end of the year anyways.
     
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  18. Yup!

    But if anything was going to get people to do this, it was a Marvel movie.
     
  19. Matthew

    Matthew Forum Resident

    Location:
    Jammin' at Sun
    October apparently, that's what I recall the listing on Disney+ saying when I checked out the movie listing a few days ago.
     
    905 likes this.
  20. polchik

    polchik Forum Resident

    yup, it will pretty much coincide nicely with the PJ beatles let it be release in november .....

    which is when i plan on signing back on for a month.
     
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  21. Panther

    Panther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Yes, many, many things.

    I think, with the Marvel blockbuster movies, when it started I was, like, "Oh great, Marvel is finally doing well at the movies! This is great." Then, it went on for five years or so, and I was, like, "Well, it's probably reaching its end soon." Then, it got even bigger. Then, it went on for another ten years. Then, it went on for another five years. Then, another five. I think at this point, I feel I've been hit over the head so many times with so many Marvel moves that I can no longer generate any interest.
     
  22. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    I never feel that way. If I’m not interested in something I will usually find it pretty easy to ignore it. How can you be hit over the head by something nobody is forcing you to watch? Why torture yourself and others by engaging in conversations you have no interest in?
     
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  23. rikki nadir

    rikki nadir Gentleman Thug

    Location:
    London, UK
    Either my math is wrong, or the blockbuster movie you highlight as starting 'Marvel is finally doing well at the movies!' was Howard The Duck in 1986.
     
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  24. Joker to the thief

    Joker to the thief Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I assumed the poster was talking about Blade in 1998
     
  25. JediJones

    JediJones Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Maybe 1997's Men in Black..."based on the Malibu / Marvel comic book series The Men in Black by Lowell Cunningham."
     
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