Marvel Studios’ Eternals

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by marmalade166, May 24, 2021.

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  1. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    Think whatever you want, Kirby fans are worldwide, and his influence is throughout the comic book community and has influenced many and I do mean many artist!
    There's no justification for the totally unnecessary PC changes, Kirby gave them an absolutely fantastic story to work with!
     
  2. Turnaround

    Turnaround Senior Member

    Location:
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    So it's basically a personal sentiment that "This isn't the movie I want to see," disguised as a statement about disrespecting Jack Kirby's legacy.

    And I imagine no amount of pointing out what the movies already changed with other Jack Kirby creations, like Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, Thor, Fantastic Four or X-Men, or how Jack Kirby himself revised prior creations, will change your mind. Because the issue isn't really about Jack Kirby, it's about your personal feelings about "PC" stuff.
     
  3. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Kirby died in 1994. A lot has happened in the world since 1994, and I think Kirby would have been happy if his creations at least laid the groundwork for new films & TV shows 27 years later... provided he gets a screen credit and his family gets paid for it.

    My old pal Mark Evanier is still working on a vast (reportedly 600+ pages) biography on Jack Kirby, and I think he'll have an announcement on its publication before the end of the year.
     
  4. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    To be fair to maccafan, he has expressed his disapproval of Thor being played for comedy, so there's at least the attempt at principles there :p
     
  5. Turnaround

    Turnaround Senior Member

    Location:
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    That's fair enough -- the comedic reworking of Thor in the movies is not true to the original Thor.

    Although not sure if the "original" Thor would mean Jack Kirby's blonde-haired comic book character, or the red-haired, red-bearded Norse mythology god whom Jack Kirby reworked into his comic book character and who has been handled in comedic ways in some Norse myths.

    :shrug:
     
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  6. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Shame on Marvel for recognizing that Chris Hemsworth is funny as hell and wanting to do something with that.

    The fish-out-of-water stuff that was in the first movie can be real cringe, as the kids say, after a while.
     
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  7. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Oh, God, if they had been faithful to the original Thor comics it would have been unintentional comedy.

    All that shouted King James-ian English: "By Odin's beard, hast thou lost all of thine senses, great brother?"
     
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  8. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    All I see are a bunch of total excuses not to do these characters properly!
    Bring the actual comic to the screen, is that too much to ask?
     
  9. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    Don't care about Hemsworth being funny! Marvel should care about him portraying their character properly!
     
  10. Veech

    Veech Space In Sounds

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Salma Hayek and Angelina Jolie? I'm in.

    I'm a blank slate regarding the Eternals. I eased out of comics around 1968 as I became more interested in music. Even then it felt like Lee & Kirby had started to get stale. Or maybe I was just getting older.

    Anyway, I come to this movie with no prejudices. 'Nuff said.
     
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  11. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    Unfortunately, he also gave them late-period Kirby artwork to interpret it. I cannot unsee that, when considering whether I should even give the film a look.

    The idea of Kirby's headgear designs alone in real-world cinematography, is enough to make watching the characters preposterous.
     
  12. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    It worked for Hela in Thor Ragnorok, she looked absolutely great and that is one of the most extravagant Kirby headgear designs!
     
  13. Slackhurst Broadcasting

    Slackhurst Broadcasting Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool
    To film a Jack Kirby book and make it not at all Kirbyesque is like filming an opera and leaving out the singing.
     
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  14. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    Exactly what part of "late-period Kirby" did you miss...
     
  15. bulletinwbw

    bulletinwbw Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Not at all trying to troll of flame here, but... do people genuinely still have excitement for the MCU movies? I feel exhausted by them.
     
  16. Turnaround

    Turnaround Senior Member

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    There is another thread discussing upcoming MCU projects for 2021 through 2023 (and beyond), where people can get into a broader discussion about all of this.

    I do think we are getting over-saturated with MCU projects. (Also with Star Wars and Star Trek, for people into that stuff. In 2022, there will be new Star Trek stuff out every week, given the numerous Star Trek series in production.)

    I can sometimes feel a little bit of FOMO (fear of missing out). If I don't watch this MCU movie or show, then I won't be set up for the next one or I'll miss out on the pop culture zeitgiest of what's being talked about now. But I have come around to treating it like when a favorite musician gets older, but remains prolific: I don't have to buy every single new album that a Prince or Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney puts out, but will pay enough attention to know when something special comes out. It is okay that I don't get all the Easter eggs in every MCU movie, or I miss a little bit of information in a movie, because I didn't see a prior movie or show. It's only as exhausting as you make yourself feel the need to keep up with them: no one is forcing you to look at the numerous active threads talking about all the different MCU projects.

    However, I think MCU still puts out very high quality stuff, so generally enjoyable stuff. And the comic book movies, MCU and outside, have been varied enough that they're not all homogenized: for example, the Captain America sequels are 1970s spy thrillers, Logan is a Western, New Mutants is a bit of horror, Guardians and Deadpool are comedy.

    Getting back on topic, the Eternals trailer that came out this week looks great. I mean visually, the movie just looks great. But for a casual MCU fan, who doesn't know the director or anything about the source material to get hyped, I could see it being a bit exhausting in the mix of all of the MCU projects out there. The trailer doesn't really say who the good versus evil are, or the conflict of the story. To a casual MCU fan, it probably looks like, "Hey, here's another CGI spectacle superhero origin story, like all those other MCU movies you've seen before".
     
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  17. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

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  18. DreadPikathulhu

    DreadPikathulhu Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I was happy to see both Loki's and the Scarlet Witch's headgear make appearances, but taking what works on the printed comic page and putting it on the screen is almost always a disaster. I am hopeful, though, that the Celestials in Eternals will retain their Kirby look.
     
  19. bulletinwbw

    bulletinwbw Forum Resident

    Location:
    North Carolina
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  20. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    What part of Hela's headgear being one of Kirby's most extravagant did you miss?
    Even more extravagant and out there than most of his late -period headgear! So that excuse doesn't fly, they could do it! Now of course there may have to be moderations, simply because real actual human beings have to wear them, but it has and can be done!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
  21. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Space-Age luddite

    Location:
    Central PA
    So - no chance of Forbush-Man: Electric Bugaloo...?:mudscrying:
     
  22. Chrome_Head

    Chrome_Head Planetary Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA.
    Got to say, the latest trailer looks quite a bit better. Will probably try to catch this one in the theater.

    Understandable, but there are plenty of other movies out there for you, and they had a LONG (for them) break of nearly two years in between Spider-Man FFH and Black Widow (due to Covid, of course).

    I've been a big fan of all the movies, but I refuse to take on another subscription service, so I haven't seen any of the Disney+ shows. And I hear almost nothing but great things about them.

    Glad they're keeping the quality high.
     
  23. Exotiki

    Exotiki The Future Ain’t What It Use To Be

    Location:
    Canada
    It may be age, but 1968 was also a very big year in comics (in many ways a big failure). And in November 67’ with Fantastic Four #66 the end was sealed.

    (Edited for length and continuity)

    “Jack originally intended for this storyline to represent his take on the Objectivist philosophy. What Jack had read of Ayn Rand and had explained to him had gotten him to thinking about the philosophy and its pitfalls, which led him to do a story about it. In Jack's original story, the scientists are well-intentioned, with no evil plans. They are attempting to create a being totally self-sufficient, intellectually self-reliant; not encumbered by superstition, fear, or doubt; in short, a being based on Rand's absolutes. Of course such a being would be totally intolerant of those who created him; a truly Objectivistic being would not cope with the flaws. Once in the scientists attack the being in an attempt to control him. This violates one of the doctrines of Objecti-vism; also, the scientists are conducting this experiment for the benefit or betterment of mankind—another violation. The being destroys his creators at the end of the story not to help mankind, but because in his eyes they are evil; no matter how well-intentioned, they tried to destroy him. He is allowed to act in his own self-defense; remember, in the eyes of the Objectivist there is no gray area between good and evil. On the other hand, Jack simply may have wanted to show on that last page the vast difference between Altruism and Objectivism; the scientists, thinking of their fellow man, create a totally self-interested being who, of course, uncaringly destroys them because they don't meet with his criteria.

    When Stan received the first part of this storyline, he felt that changes had to be made. Perhaps he found its content too negative to a given philosophy, politically-based, or simply confusing to him. Stan didn't notice any villain in the story and almost always felt that every story had to have a bad guy, so he had to come up with one. He could only choose between the being or the scientists and it was simplicity to just go the "Mad Scientist/Sympathetic Creature" route; it worked for Frankenstein, right? During these years Stan would have photostats shot of Jack's artwork, to be sent back to Jack so that he could remember his plot continuities in these multi-part stories of his. These photostats would have Stan's dialogue intact to show Jack how Stan was interpreting the stories. When Jack received the photostats to issue #66, the first part, he wasn't pleased at all. His storyline had been corrupted; the entire reason for the story had been gutted, replaced with a standard comic book plot; and he was now (due to the fact that this issue was going to print) forced to change the rest of his story to support Lee's version. Jack may have intended for this story to be longer, but after seeing he ended with the next issue.

    Also during this time Jack was becoming more and more disenchanted with his position with the Company and his working relationship with Stan Lee. Over the previous twelve months Jack witnessed Marvel receive a great deal of publicity; articles in newspapers and magazines hailing Lee for his new and innovative style, and how the readership wondered how Lee "came up" with characters like the Hulk, Thor, and Spider-Man, among others. Jack was also having his share of business battles with Goodman, a man who never understood Kirby's value to the Company (Lee, to his credit, did), concerning his contract and his wanting to earn the most he could—and Jack was tired of submitting stories with his margin notes for direction, being either changed or ignored by Lee.

    All these factors and more finally bubble over, Jack decides that he has given enough new characters, devices, and situations to Marvel. He had seen one after another of his creations and/or stories changed against his wishes or taken away from him. He didn't really want to stay at Marvel anymore, but at this particular time there weren't any avenues open to him that would offer him any better working conditions; so he figured he'd have to make the most of it. He just wouldn't give them anything new anymore, or at least anything that was to him substantial.”

    Unabridged source:
    TwoMorrows Publishing - Comparing Kirby's notes to Lee's script: Part Four - Kirby Collector Twentyfourth Issue
     
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  24. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Actually, yes, because the producers of $200+ million film projects are trying to appeal to the broadest possible worldwide audience, not just guys our age who read the comics in '60s and '70s. I'm surprised that the MCU has been as faithful to the originals as it has.

    Moreover, the original Marvel comics would go through different iterations of the same story every several years, especially origin stories. Why should the movies be any different?

    I'm more familiar with Thanos from the original Warlock storyline, when he destroyed planets to court the physical manifestation of Death. Eventually in this sequence, he was stopped by the Avengers along with Captain Marvel (who was male at this point), Thing, Spider-Man and Warlock. Eventually this was reworked in the "original" comics into the story that more closely resembles what became the Thanos story in the movies. So which is the correct one?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2021
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  25. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I think the first two Thor movies struggeled to make Thor relatable, is all. They needed humor to help break the barrier of a perfect, blond-haired blue-eyed "god" to reach the audience. Knocking Thor down a few pegs through the Infinity War - Ragnorok - Endgame saga, where he went from fallen hero to overweight, beer-belly, playstation-addicted loser was a stroke of brilliance to help the audience relate to him better. They did similarly creative things with Hulk, to switch up the tedium of the scientist personaly only being associated with the Banner character and the brute only being associated with the Hulk character. By the time we got to Endgame, Hulk was stuck looking like the brute but he couldn't change back into Banner and was wearing glasses and acting like a nerd.

    You have to think of them as a sort of TV show with longer episodes and more elaborate production. In that respect, it's one of the best shows going. Consistently pretty great.
     
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