MFSL inner sleeves leaving marks on my vinyl...ever encounter this problem?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by bayen, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    Just sent the following email to the company that supplies my MFSL inner sleeves:

    Hello. I purchased a pack of Mobile Fidelity Inner Sleeves (50 Pack) on 9/24/12 order # 410915. I opened the pack this weekend after cleaning close to thirty LP's using a VPI 16.5 record cleaning machine. Last night I decided to play one of the newly cleaned LP's and noticed strange marks on the vinyl playing surface. I found this strange due to the fact that the LP was practically mint before cleaning and was absolutely clean afterwards. I checked the other LP's..and same marks. I re-cleaned two LP's this morning with MFSL Enzyme cleaner and MFSL Pure. The marks were removed and after thoroughly inspecting the vinyl they were placed in two new inner sleeves. At this time in occurred to me...maybe it's the inner sleeve leaving the marks...I pulled the vinyl out and found new marks. I then realized that the marks were being left wherever I held the inner sleeve. I then purposely touched the sleeve, with vinyl inserted, and found that wherever I touched the sleeve a mark or print was left on the playing surface. So, I then opened a new pack that was ordered on 11/6/12 order #1351. I placed a new LP (not machine cleaned yet) into one of the new sleeves and it also left marks! I then repeated the same experiment on an LP that was cleaned almost a year ago and stored in a MFSL inner sleeve...no marks, the LP looks as perfect as the day it was cleaned.

    I was wondering if anyone else has ever experienced this problem? I've been using the sleeve for almost 10 years...almost 2000 LP's in MFSL inners, and have never had this happen before.
     
  2. ElizabethH

    ElizabethH Forum Resident

    Location:
    SE Wisconsin,USA
    WATER. moisture is the culprit 100% certain.
    When I wash a LP, I always play it. so then when I put it away, I KNOW it is totally dry.

    So I am saying you are putting away the LPs with traces of moisture still in the grooves.
     
  3. MYKE

    MYKE Analog Upstairs, Digital Downstairs

    I thought that earlier today too ! :idea:
     
  4. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    That was my first thought. Until I placed a new record, that had not been cleaned, into the MFSL sleeve and it left the same marks.
     
    AcidPunk15 likes this.
  5. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    It's definitely the sleeves. I just went and had a second look at the new vinyl that I had left inside the MFSL sleeve earlier this afternoon. Even before I slid the vinyl out of the sleeve I could see exactly were the marks/prints were going to be on the playing surface. It's almost as though the inside of the sleeve is coated with a very fine powder that is transferred to the vinyl where ever the sleeve is held.
     
  6. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest USA
    I have used well over a thousand MoFi inner sleeves and never had a problem. When I wash a record I let it air dry on a bamboo dish-drying rack for 20 minutes before re-sleeving it.
     
  7. ssmith3046

    ssmith3046 Forum Resident

  8. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    Yes...same here. I've never had this problem before and I've been using the same sleeve for almost ten years...close to 2000 LP's. After cleaning I let the vinyl dry for at least an hour before placing in a new sleeve...but I'm talking about a brand new LP placed in a brand new MFSL sleeve before cleaning. I actually tried this with three new records and three new sleeves taken from a brand new pack of 50 MFSL sleeves. I know it's hard to believe but something is wrong...replacements are on their way.
     
  9. hvbias

    hvbias Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    I just checked some older LPs I placed in Mofi sleeves and they are mark free. This batch would have been several years old though. I checked some LPs I placed in Bags Unlimited rice paper poly inner sleeves and no marks on those either.

    Are these marks permanent, or do they go away with a dry brushing?
     
    Rickchick likes this.
  10. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    They do go away when cleaned again:righton:
     
  11. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    I checked some vinyl that I had cleaned months ago and they were all fine. It's the records I cleaned and placed in sleeves from the last two packs of 5o I purchased.
     
  12. Six String

    Six String Senior Member

    I've used these sleeves for years without any problems. I clean my lp manually so while they are pretty dry when I put them in their sleeves I don't leave them out to dry yet I've never had a problem. I live in a pretty dry part of the country though. Do you live in a high humidity area?
     
  13. ronankeane

    ronankeane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Sounds very much like you just got a bad batch of sleeves. The fact that it happened to an LP you hadn't cleaned yet shows the problem is not caused you failing to dry the record. Let us know when you get a reply to your email.
     
  14. attym

    attym Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Ive never experienced this
     
  15. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    Well, I've spent the last week inspecting and re-cleaning vinyl. I was able to put together a list of LP's I've purchased in the last two years...thanks to eBays archive purchase search and saved emails. Every album I inspected that was purchased in 2011 was fine...super black and as shiny as the day it was purchased and/or cleaned. The problem started sometime early this year. Every LP purchased and placed in a new MFSL sleeve between 2/12 and 11/12 had marks and prints. I didn't even have to pull the 2011 purchased LP all the way out of the inner sleeve..I could see right away that the vinyl looked dull and unclean. I purchased 3/4 packs of sleeves during the past year and these seem to be the problem sleeves. I received two replacement packs on Saturday. I cleaned three LP's, placed two in paper sleeves and one in a new MFSL inner from the new pack. The two in paper are fine but the vinyl in the MFSL sleeve looks like it was never cleaned. What I don't understand is that If I pull a record purchased last year off my shelf...for instance, any Music Matters or Analogue Productions 45 rpm, they will look absolutely amazing! When I checked my Dexter Gordon 45 rpm LP, purchased a few months ago, it looked dull and spotty. I'm wondering if it's just a bad batch of sleeves or if MFSL changed the way they are being manufactured....or maybe the sleeves I purchased were stored in extreme heat..or somewhere overly humid? I'm thinking of contacting MFSL with a few questions.
     
  16. oregonalex

    oregonalex Forum Resident

    OK - we are not crazy. My experience is identical. Sorry I missed this thread - posted my experience here:

    http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-original-master-sleeves.303121/#post-8302390

    #1 - IT IS DEFINITELY NOT MOISTURE! The same problem appears on brand new, never cleaned records.

    #2 - I started using these sleeves this year. All exhibit the problem. I have bought 4 packs throughout the year. Some from Sleeve Town, some from Music Direct. ALL have the same problem. Dealer independent.

    #3 - It does not dry brush off. It washes off with distilled water, though.

    #4 - It is butt ugly. Pull a brand new record from that sleeve and look at it at an angle under bright light. Looks like a moldy beater bought at a garage sale. I have to wash records before selling them.

    Let's see what they write you back. If the response is unsatisfactory, I will write them also and attempt to photograph the discoloration.

    I can't believe that nobody else has noticed that with such widely used sleeves. It is not subtle.
     
    marklamb and Sailfree like this.
  17. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Clean it, play it, then put it in the MFSL sleeve. Even new records have dust on them, and I guarentee that used ones always do too.
     
  18. oregonalex

    oregonalex Forum Resident

    This has been very hard to explain without showing it. I don't think it will show well on a picture either.
    It does not look like regular household dust. Rather it looks like the record has been dusted for fingerprints. There are whitish "maps" on the record across the grooves and deadwax. If the sleeve wrinkles during insertion, then there will be whitish "ridges" where the plastic pressed stronger against the record. If you lay the record in the sleeve on a palm of your hand, there will be an imprint of your hand on the record once you pull it out.

    If someone has bought and used these sleeves recently, please pull a record out of it and look at it under bright light as if you are grading it. I bet you will see it. If not, then at least we will have an indication that this is a bad batch and not a manufacturing change.
     
  19. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I gotcha now. I agree with others that you must have gotten a bad batch. The 4 bags of the sleeves that I have don't exhibit this phenomenon.
     
  20. Wasatch

    Wasatch Music Lover!

    Never had this problem before either. I just switched over to 100% MoFi inner sleeves.
     
  21. oregonalex

    oregonalex Forum Resident

    I have attempted to take a picture. It was extremely hard to take it at the right angle. Sorry for the quality, the camera refused to quite focus under the extreme conditions. Ignore the reflections and the green dots (camera artifacts). Concentrate on the area inside the red mark. The ridges and the irregular smudge are it. I assure you this is a brand new record that was inserted pristine into the sleeve. And now I have about 150 of them like this.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Wasatch

    Wasatch Music Lover!

    I get new LPs with scuff marks, warped, fingerprints all the time, regardless of cost. Also, all have had no issues when played, but still.............
     
  23. oregonalex

    oregonalex Forum Resident

    It has been difficult trying to convince people that I am ABSOLUTELY 100% positive the stains were not present when the records were put in the sleeves. My records are washed, vacuumed and then carefully inspected before being stored away. I only have a couple of new ones that arrived so pristine that I stored them without cleaning. In either case, the records come out smudged. It does not take long - you put them in, then pull them out immediately and it has already happened.

    I think they put some powder in the sleeves to keep the liners from sticking together and to the records. Maybe they've been putting too much of it in this year, I don't know. All I know is that besides it being unsightly, I don't want ANY residue on my records. And I am not relishing the idea of re-washing 200 records and buying new sleeves.
     
  24. bayen

    bayen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    philadelphia Pa
    Hello oregonalex! I don't think the issue is being understood by everyone. The marks I've found (same as the marks in your photo) were not present before being placed in the MFSL sleeve. I also have close to 200 records affected and have spent the week re-cleaning and placing in new paper sleeves until replacement sleeves (different brand) arrive tomorrow. I have 1000+ LP's purchased before 2012 not affected...but it seems that everything purchased since February of this year has to be re-cleaned. Your powder theory makes sense..wonder if this is a step used when manufacturing. If anyone is interested and would really like to see first hand what we're talking about, I'm willing to send you a new sleeve from the pack in question. I can guarantee that if you place a brand new LP or a just cleaned pristine LP into the sleeve the vinyl will come out looking like a poorly handled thrift store record.
     
  25. oregonalex

    oregonalex Forum Resident

    I have e-mailed my picture to Mobile Fidelity. I'll post when I hear back from them. Once your replacement sleeves arrive, could you, please, post whether they solve the problem and what brand you have bought? As I posted earlier, I have bought a few new records recently in QRP sleeves and they do not have the problem. But, they look darn similar to the Mofi's - I would not be surprised if they were made by the same supplier. The smallest quantity you can buy is 250 (thanks, deadcoldfish, for the source info), so I'm a little skittish on the off chance they turn out the same. Plus, I want to hear what MoFi thinks first.
     

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