MFSL inner sleeves leaving marks on my vinyl...ever encounter this problem?

No issues with the size here, but I agree that the MAs aren't quite as easy to slide back into the jacket. However, I initially had trouble with the MoFis as well; it took me a while to get the technique to minimize folding and bunching. (Still happens sometimes–which is not a problem with the MAs.)

I've been trying to source inserts like the ones that MoFi includes with their own titles, as I find they solve the bunching problem. Even though I'm switching away from the "rice paper" style, I still think the inserts are a good idea and I suspect they will solve the insertion issue with the MAs as well.

 

Funny, I ditch the inserts because I find it harder to slide them back in due to the extra thickness. But then I have rarely found I have the bunching/folding issue (must just have the right touch to put them in square?).

 

Exactly, when you clean the record, gotta put it in a drying rack for 15 or 20 mins to let it dry properly...

 

That's generally the way I tend to do it except when I am being a bit sloppy in the handling which does happen from time to time.

 

I brutally sliiiiiiiiiiiiide the LP out of the MFSL sleeve for maximum abrasion, slap that baby on the TT and drop the needle, knock back a shot of rye, burble away on the hubbly bubbly, and then clumsily force the record back in the sleeve without a thought for its well-being.

My vinyl will feel the wrath of my Mofi inners, and they’ll like it.

 

Sooooo. I bought some classical boxed sets from the dollar bins and did a pseudo scientific test of a variety of inner sleeves. Most did scratch the vinyl when roughly slid in and out so care in properly sleeving records is the most important thing. But if you are a bit OCD and don't want hairlines on your vinyl here are the scratchability rankings.

1. Goldring Ex-Static
2. MA Recordings
3. Bags Unlimited Poly-Pro
4. Mofi
5. Paper

My method was to weight the sleeve lightly and slide the record in and out 10 times, note the condition and then another 15 times and note the condition.

Goldring:
10: Super faint hairlines only visible in deadwax 1/10
25: Still super faint hairlines 3/10

MA Recording:
10: Wispy surface scuffs rather than hairline 2/10
25: More surface scuffs with a few faint hairlines 5/10

Bags Unlimited Polypro:
10: Like mofi but milder 2-3/10
25: More of the same 5-6/10
(i didn't like the feel of the plastic inner as it was a bit tacky but that is subjective)

MOFI:
10: Many many very fine hairlines 3/10
25: More of the same 6/10

Generic White Paper:
10: Fully covered in hairlines with some deep scratches 8/10
25: Trashed 10/10

The Goldring sleeves are super nice but unfortunately a pain to find and expensive. The good news is they are available on Amazon.co.uk and end up cheaper than the listed price if you are in the U.S. because you don't pay VAT and the pound is weak. Also MOFI's or any of the others are fine just don't assume you can whip those discs in and out willy nilly just because they seem slick.

 

Whipping discs out and rubbing the sides significantly I think is the main issue here. Only thing with Mo-Fi is they can be a tight fit (variable) though not as bad as the horrible clear and even worse pink sleeves RTI have been using in recent years. I always tilt records slightly so the outer edge (top) mostly rubs the sleeve if tight fit (hand between record and sleeve on bottom).

 

Assuming you cleaned these records to eliminate the abrasion from years of debris right?

 

I knew vinyl archaeologist would get shot down with the usual ‘debris in sleeve’ response.

Seriously though, thanks for doing the test. At least someone prepared to test these sleeves for themselves rather than stick head in sand!

 

The million dollar question (IMO): Do any of these superficial scuffs and hairline scratches actually translate into AUDIBLE defects? The stylus rides inside the grooves, below the record surface and the hairline scratches, correct? Does it interact with them?

 

Most of the time its a no in my experience. Depends on the stylus too though, but I think there is one example I have where they seem to correlate with some light ticks during soft music. Hard to say though.

 

Can't seem to locate the Goldring sleeves on Amazon - got a link?

 

I was prepared too and did a test. Not as extensive as the OP as I didn't have as many different sleeves. I had some MOFIs (older ones and newer ones) and a couple of generic type inner sleeves that are readily available.

I did my test a little differently. In test I applied a lot of pressure and there was a mark right where I was applying pressure regardless of what sleeve I tried it with. I figured as much due to the pressure.

But when I did the test using my normal method of remove a record, which has no real pressure pushing the material onto the record surface, I could not see any marks. The only pressure was whatever pressure the weight of the material provided. I didn't withdraw anything roughly but then again, I'm not sure what he means by roughly. Could be just normal for me

I can't recall how many times I removed the lp from the sleeves but I didn't do it in quick succession. I basically removed it, replaced it. Remove it again, but at regular speed that I would use under day to day listening circumstances.

 

I still have some MFSL vinyl is perfect. sleeves fine.

 

and expensive to boot! That has to hurt! and a huge PITA!

 

How is it "shooting someone down" to ask if they've isolated the number one cause of scratches? I have no horse in the race, I just think it would be good to know if they are seeing scratches from the sleeves and the debris interacting with the vinyl, or just the sleeve itself. If there's debris, then you're likely seeing scratches from the level of friction alone, as opposed to the surface material of the sleeves.

 

The vinyl was very clean and looked unplayed. I was observing under a 200w incandescent bulb.

If it was surface debris it should have affected all sleeves the same right?

I didn’t play any of these records but I would say past 3-4 on my “scale” I would expect things to be audible and I visually grade a lot of records.

You have to go to amazon.co.uk and they will deliver internationally.

 

Does “was very clean” mean you cleaned it, or just that it looked clean?

Yes, debris should have affected all sleeves the same if the debris was the same among the records put in all sleeves. If any existing debris was less random, though, it could have skewed results.

 

I know, can't find 'em there. That's why I asked for a link.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Goldring-Exstatic-Record-Sleeves-PACK/dp/B0056GPU6W

 

Thanks! It wasn't turning up in my searches for some reason.

 

If this site made it easier to post images then I would have posted a lot more. This is a brand spanking new copy of Alan Parsons project I Robot, removed one time from the inner sleeve. Of course I caused the damage by simply removing it from the premium archive quality sleeve...
F868-E62-A-5-DA2-49-F7-8-F01-FE237-FE3-B705

FECC3-F55-FB8-A-4-AF9-85-B4-5380-FE6-A3116

F868-E62-A-5-DA2-49-F7-8-F01-FE237-FE3-B705

7-F748-A69-0-B86-4680-AC24-1897-EB510-DA6

This has been only removed once and may be fairly minor at this stage but you can see the evidence of what is to come after prolonged use and the nonsense that these sleeves are ‘non-scratching’. Whatever way you want to debate it and argue about handling, this has been removed only once...I only unsealed it this morning so about as new as you could get. I’m sure people will still argue over it.

Also, please take into account that these marks are very difficult to capture on photos...

 

Bored today?

 

I guess you got all yer records in these then?

 

One thing that I try and do is to pass on my experience of certain things like this on this forum. It’s interesting how people will practically point blank refuse to believe anything, even if you put the evidence in front of them. And then they get nasty and just completely dismiss it. I’m not sure if it’s because it’s not what they want to believe after having believed in something for so long?