Michael Fremer on "Copies of Beatles Master Tapes" Played at CES

He skillfully points out they're fakes... He also claims:

"According to another of my sources, the tapes at Capitol are, for a variety of reasons, at bestthird generation tapes. Tapes sent to Mexico and other Western Hemisphere EMI affiliates were copies of those tapes, sent by Capitol, not by EMI."

Which is probably true for the early master tapes, but for Sgt. Pepper and beyond I would think they're second generation copies. Discuss...

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/copies-beatles-master-tapes-played-ces-and-rmaf-2013

Derek

 

Interesting.....

 

Good, I'm glad the masters are being kept safe and not being trotted out for shows...

 

I certainly know nothing of these sorts of things, but it does seem ludicrous that someone could surreptitiously remove the master tapes from storage and make a copy of them without anyone knowing. Especially when you consider the hundreds of millions of dollars (or more) that they are worth.

 

Flat copy the tapes to DSD and be done with it. Take the DSD on the road to where ever. This is 2013 , do you really need the tapes other than in a vault.

 

Michael's assertion that Capitol's tapes are at best third generation copies needs a caveat. EMI sent over second (or even first) generation mixdown tapes to Capitol (Lewishon's book has records of this), but as I understand it, in the process of making the songs "fit" for US consumption, (all that extra reverb, odd EQ and compression) they were copied and those copies (now second or third generation) became Capitol's de facto master tapes. Even if the later albums were spared "Dexterization" it would still have been policy to copy the EMI sent tapes, file them away with warnings to not ever use them, and label the copies as "masters" as insurance against any accidental tape damage that might occur.

So, Michael is correct but shouldn't Capitol have the tapes EMI originally sent all those years ago still in their vaults? At least you'd think so.

 

As Gary said, the masters need to be flat copied to DSD. What's scary is that the whole catalogue (like many other classic ones) has still not been transferred to DSD and so by the time someone gets around to it, there may be some substantial shedding oxides leading to unpleasant dropouts. As it stands now, the only way to hear the Fabs properly in all their full three dimensional glory is through the original UK vinyl. Like many others, I personally am too nervous to even play the best of my original UK vinyl, and actually keep most of it under lock and key. And of course the alternative official CDs and recent vinyl are still severely flawed and lacking in the holographic quality so essential to their original brilliance. We still need some justice. In the meantime, I would certainly breathe a lot easier if all the treasures from the sixties (especially the British Invasion) would be transferred onto DSD AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. We don't need any more droputs (listen to Stray Cat Blues on Beggars Banquet or White Rabbit on Surrealistic Pillow). These dropouts are scary. Time for flat DSD (not PCM) transfers.... NOW.... before it's too late!!!!

 

According to the engineers who worked on the remasters, the mastertapes are still in very good shape. They weren't used all that much. EMI tape was supposedly very good.

Not all UK Beatle albums are "holographic" sounding. With all due respect, life is too short. Enjoy what you have.

 

I think his sources are correct when talking about the Dexterized early tapes. I think it's wrong when referencing Sgt. Pepper and later albums. There are no extra reverb, odd EQ and compression on those US albums. I'm not sure exactly what the Capitol policy was regarding the EMI masters. I would think they'd copy them to create a safety and then use the EMI supplied master tape. They could always send for a new master if it were ever damaged. Perhaps Steve Hoffman or one of the other engineers here could tell us more about Capitol's practice with master tapes?

Derek

 

As Fremer says, aside from what's on the MFSL box, I've never seen an authentic EMI Beatles master. I have seen a Capitol dub of a dub.

 

Can't see it. They have done flat PCM 24/192 transfers. Just insisted on messing with them and redoing EQ at a lower resolution. I'm sure Abbey Road have preserved the true hi-res transfers from the tapes but the official approved masters are now 24/44.1.

 

Interesting comment by Geoff Emerick on the Mobile Fidelity Sgt. Pepper (and the Japanese red Odeon):

I was invited to attend and meet Geoff Emerick who had hand-carried the master tape from where they are stored. I brought with me the Mobile Fidelity version of the album, which, after about a minute's worth, Emerick declared "rubbish" because of the high frequency boost applied throughout (and to the whole set). I then played him the mono Japanese Odeon red vinyl reissue from the early 1980s, which he said was "perfect".​

 

EMI have several sets of copy tapes of all the Beatles masters stored at various locations around the UK. They didn't need them for the 1987 CD masterings and they haven't needed them since. I'm sure MFSL would have had these, at best. I can't see ANY genuine Beatles master ever leaving the UK.

 

Agreed on the mofi Sgt. Pepper, smiley face eq applied throughout the album=total crap!

 

NO. MFSL used the true original analog masters for their LPs issued in the 80s.

 

MFSL had the master tapes (used the wrong ones for MMT) and they were almost stolen enroute to LA. Stan Riker wanted to cut them properly but was instructed to use the bad eq curves by the president who had a hearing problem.

 

of course the people at the CES show were full of it. Who knows what the source could have been, maybe even a dub from a CD! The picture in that article is not even close to an EMI master tape. The tape in the picture is on AMPEX 456 grand master. That nasty stuff came out in the late 70's. So it obviously a copy done here in the USA. I have to bake those tapes for nearly 24 hours and they still leave a lot of residue behind on the transport. Even worse is the AMPEX 406 and 407! That brand will shed no matter how much you bake it. I am sure that going forward, EMI will not touch the analog masters, but go back to the 192/24 bit flat dub files.

 

So they had the masters and still managed to make them sound worse than stock EMI pressings.

 

What a shame. The MoFi set (with the exception of MMT) could have been the definitive box if the albums were done the way Stan Ricker wanted. The vinyl is dead quiet.

 

What Fremer seems to forget is that dubs were routinely made years ago. Besides Capitol/US, other territories were either sent copy tapes or metal from the UK when it came to presenting the original UK tracklistings.
And you think that these dubs are under the tightest lock and key? Psh. They're in the hands of more collectors than you would think. There's been a steady leak of Warner Music cutting masters coming from Greece over the past couple of years. Tapes end up in storage, divisions shut down, labels go defunct... **** happens.

Our host himself has presented Beatles safeties at some of these shows, and I myself have a few Beatles titles, amongst many others.

Fremer is very knowledgable when it comes to LPs and such but it seems as if he didn't fully think this one through. Very lucky to have been able to hear the 1st generation Pepper master though.

 

Not a hearing problem, per se, but he had an extremely bad head cold at the time of the Beatles masterings and never took into account how hearing is affected by a bad head cold. Stan has said in interviews how he pleaded with the guy and tried to tell him the cuts sounded "dull" because of his cold but he wouldn't listen.

 

No, they did travel. In an interview with Stan Ricker by David L. Glackin, he describes the cans and tapes just as described earlier in the thread:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/rickerinterview/ricker12.htm

It was the early 1980's. A different time. Valuable masters like that could be shipped to third parties without too much thought.

 

He did have a hearing problem (sadly for the head of an audiophile label). I know someone who knew him back then.

 

If you reverse the eq (trimming the mid bass a little as well), dubs from these vinyl albums sound startlingly good. "Vivid" is the word that comes to mind. I made myself a full set of dubs (MMT excepted, it's disappointing).

 

Ouch!! The irony!

Hmmm...I wonder if Stan was trying to be diplomatic in the interview I had read. (It was an Audio magazine feature from the mid/late 1980's I believe.)